Schools Forum - Tuesday 2 December 2025, 1:30pm - Buckinghamshire Council Webcasting

Schools Forum
Tuesday, 2nd December 2025 at 1:30pm 

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  1. Andy Gillespie
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  2. Gaynor Bull
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  4. Janice Freeman
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  8. Janice Freeman
  9. Gaynor Bull
  10. Andy Gillespie
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  14. Michael Jarrett
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  1. Russell dyer
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  4. Michael Jarrett
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  1. Russell Dyer
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  1. Janice Freeman
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  1. Rachel Shovell
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  1. Andy Gillespie
  2. Webcast Finished

Okay, afternoon everyone.
I hate hearing my voice through speakers.
It just reminds me of karaoke, unfortunately.
It seems like it's not that long ago that we were meeting.
Are there any apologies for absence?

1 Apologies for Absence

Thank you. Sorry Chairman, we've got apologies from Councillor Carl Jackson.
Thank you. Declarations of interest.

2 Declarations of Interest

Okay minutes of the previous meeting are to follow.

3 Minutes of the previous meeting

so sorry Chairman I have circulated them apologies yesterday I don't know if
people are happy to take them now or whether they prefer to look at them for
the following meeting and I think it's a half 3 42 pages I don't know if you
interrupted decorating your Christmas trees if you've had a chance to to go over them.
Do we want to take that forward because it was a pretty important meeting and I think we need to
go through those items with with some care so I think if we take that through to the next
Andy Gillespie - 0:01:57
next meeting if delegates could could make sure that they're looking at those prior to

4 Schools Forum Membership

the January meeting. So we now come to the Schools Forum membership. We do have
some vacancies in place. We have a vacancy for the maintained crew.
We have a vacancy for a secondary grammar. My term of office is up so that's
two vacancies for the secondary grammars and then we have one vacancy for the
secondary upper. I think the details and the paperwork for
nominations has gone out. When's the deadline for nominations?
Thank you Chairman. The deadline for nominations is Wednesday the 10th of December.
Andy Gillespie - 0:02:51
So we've got time to nudge people and try and suggest that people put themselves forward to join this group.
So if there is anyone who has been interested, please, please nudge them.
I think we also need to look at some of the sub -committees.
I think we have the Funding Group, the De -Delegation Group and the Contingency Panel.
So in terms of the funding group, I think there is a question myself and Gayna had
about whether we needed a formal funding group now given that we're closer to the
national funding formula and whether that was required or could it be just a
meeting with the chairs to go through the papers so that it meant that the
workers released at the same time to everyone which might give people a few
more days to actually go over it. I don't know if anyone, is there anyone else in
here? Is Marika in here? Anyone got any strong views? Gaynor? I think it would be
sensible not to have it. I think if there was anything that required input from
Gaynor Bull - 0:04:13
forum members we could always set up a short -term working party to work before
a forum but I personally think that it's a lot of officers time for something
that we then repeat a couple of weeks later basically when we come to full
Andy Gillespie - 0:04:32
forum. Okay. The De -Delegation Committee I'm not sure who's on the De -Delegation
committee and if we need anyone else volunteering. I'm happy to stay as chair of the delegation and all maintained
representatives are automatically members of that committee.
Okay now. Sorry I missed that, can you repeat that? So I'm happy to stay as chair but also any member of the board
who's a maintained from the maintained sector is automatically a member of the
Janice Freeman - 0:05:11
delegation. My question was just to ask should we formally agree who is
Gaynor Bull - 0:05:19
definitely going to attend that meeting because otherwise if everybody assumes
somebody else is going then you may end up with a meeting with just yourself
Janice. Thank you. Yes, but I say it should be all maintained.
Janice Freeman - 0:05:30
Andy Gillespie - 0:05:36
representatives. Do we have a date for that? It would be useful to set one today.
Janice Freeman - 0:05:40
So maybe at the end we can actually just speak to the maintained
Gaynor Bull - 0:05:44
representatives here and agree a date and then membership of that subcommittee.
Andy Gillespie - 0:05:52
Okay and the contingency panel, who is on the contingency panel?
What's the make -up?
Just two people at the moment, we need more volunteers for contingency?
I'm in a chair as well.
You're a double chair?
No, I'm not sharing that. Sorry I misunderstood. Eileen was the chair for that. So we do need a replacement chair.
Gaynor Bull - 0:06:30
And again this group has got to come from maintained schools representative because it's about the contingency for main schools and difficulties.
Okay, thank you Jude.
Andy Gillespie - 0:06:40
Okay, are there any other subcommittees or groups that we've not covered?
I think there was a question mark about the DSG spending with the group, Michael.
Clare Gray - 0:06:51
I mean, it clearly has a purpose in terms of trying to consider some of the factors in relation to the dedicated schools grant.
But again, taking your point about being close now to the national funding formula and the
fact that we have already consulted on the block transfer and not going forward in relation
to that, it kind of feels that the work of that group has now concluded for now and it
Michael Jarrett - 0:07:19
may well be that it needs to be re -stood up should we have a particular change in terms
of the funding arrangements. But as it stands at the moment, it feels like that work has
concluded.
Geena?
Gaynor Bull - 0:07:28
Yes, the DSG spending review merged into the delivering better value at one point and obviously
then we've moved on from that so I think until we've got clarity from the Government in terms
of who's taking responsibility for SEND funding going forward then again I don't think we
need membership from here.
Andy Gillespie - 0:07:49
And so would it be schools forum that would reconvene that group who would be calling
for the DSG group to be meeting?
Gaynor Bull - 0:08:00
Potentially yes, depending on where the DFE allocate responsibility for the funding, because if they're taking it centrally then we would have little input.
Andy Gillespie - 0:08:09
Okay, is there anything else, any other points on schools forum membership?
Nope.
Just one please.
Alright, yes.
Is that on? I think so.
It's on again, apologies. Okay Sarah Barkot -Wood from the National Education
Union has retired I'm now taking her place and that was advice about a year

5 Dedicated Schools Budget - Revenue Budget Monitoring 2025-26

Andy Gillespie - 0:08:58
ago thank you. Okay thank you. So then going on to the dedicated schools budget the
revenue budget monitoring for 25 -26 I think is this this is the P6 summary
which is similar to the P5 summary and there were significant changes from P4 on the P5 summary.
Is that right? Is there anything you want to take us through on that, Russell?
No, I think in essence it's the same as the P5 report.
Russell dyer - 0:09:34
So I probably wouldn't go over it again other than to say that there is some risk in the forecast
that we identified at the last meeting.
Russell Dyer - 0:09:49
Particular alternative provision and the independent non -maintained special schools as well on the
high needs block.
Those areas were having a bit of a deeper dive in at the moment.
And then obviously the council was invested in the EHCP addressing the backlog so we start
to flow through in terms of some additional pressures,
but that's more likely to be in the next financial year
rather than the current financial year.
And then I think there are some issues
about the growth fund as well that could be precious.
With those AHCP, with the very welcome investment
into clearing the AHCP backlog,
Andy Gillespie - 0:10:26
have we got any information about who's actually
going to be conducting those reviews?
Michael Jarrett - 0:10:37
So the council submitted a, we submitted a claim into the council for financial support.
Our cabinet members supported the application. We now have £3 million of investment to clear
the backlog, which is no mean investment given the financial context that all local authorities
are facing. So we are incredibly appreciative of that investment. What we are now doing
is we have gone through a procurement exercise to tender for an organisation that will come
in with new educational psychologists and us associated team members to be able to support
that work. The work will report into our substantive teams here within the council so we still
have complete oversight in terms of the work. So you won't be receiving in a school context
consultations from people you have no contact with or no knowledge of or people that don't
no Buckinghamshire, so therefore that will still be managed by the local authority. The
recovery plan itself has been managed by two key officers within the local authority, Ammon
Second Gill and Dion Martin, both of whom have been coordinating the work within this
development and will liaise completely with myself and Caroline Marriot within the SEND
team to make sure that we maintain the consistency and continuity across the authority. So that's
effectively how that work is going to be commissioned. The work will start in January in terms of
the starting point. We were hoping to try to do things this side of Christmas but given
the fact we're so close to Christmas it felt like we would lose momentum by starting and
then stopping halfway through. So the work will start in January. Once we've got confirmed
names and details in relation to the project team that will be coming in then we'll circulate
that message across schools and settings so they know who to liaise with appropriately.
So has the tender process been complete then you've appointed a firm that will be?
We're just finalising that part of the process so the tender has gone through and it's now
going through the final stages of the procurement approval process here within the local authority
where we've had incredible support from our colleagues to be able to fast track that through
the processes that we need to go through.
Andy Gillespie - 0:12:53
So will PEB or BASH or the Forum look at the SLA agreements for that organisation in terms
of what the rationale is, what you're hoping they'll do in terms of targets or anything
like that?
So the targets that have been set as part of the procurement process are really clear
Michael Jarrett - 0:13:13
in terms of we expect the organisation to clear 225 education, health and care plans per month.
So that is the target that they're working towards.
There is monitoring arrangements built in as part of that SLA arrangement through the procurement process
and we will be working with them to ensure that we keep to track in terms of that delivery model.
So what, there aren't any targets in terms of the percentage that go through or the percentage that don't go through?
Andy Gillespie - 0:13:37
Michael Jarrett - 0:13:41
No, so those will, the ones that they'll be clearing are the ones that are actually in the backlog.
So we will be working very closely with them to triage and prioritise those that go forward for assessment as part of that process.
Andy Gillespie - 0:13:55
Okay. Any other questions on that? Marika?
How many EHDPs are currently in the backlog?
Michael Jarrett - 0:14:04
So we currently have 1 ,652 children awaiting an assessment and as part of that process,
hence the reason why the council has invested significantly in those, that is a number that
is unacceptable from our point of view. We are really, really clear that we need to clear
the backlog as quickly as possible and that will then enable education settings to be
able to draw down funding from the high needs block to be able to provide the support that
those children and people in these.
So just thinking about that quickly if we're clearing 225 a month that's going
Gaynor Bull - 0:14:41
to take us between seven and eight months to clear the 1650 but from a
financial impact what you're saying is that because that first 225 is unlikely
to clear before March it'll basically be starting April onwards so when we're
at the budget for next financial year 26 to 27 will not only have to take in the
normal assessment and numbers that go through but we'll also have to add on
that 650 in terms of the expected financial needs then to support those.
That's correct and just on the numbers in terms of the 225 so that's the number
Michael Jarrett - 0:15:15
that we're expecting the project team to process but of course we have our own
services as well. So in addition to that number we also have our own team that will be progressing
EKNA arrangements as well.
Andy Gillespie - 0:15:32
Did anyone have any other questions for either Russell or Gareth?
No?
No other questions on dedicated schools budget. Okay moving on to 6 then the National Funding

6 National Funding Formula Operational guidance and School Budget Proposals 2026-27

Formula operational guidance and school budget proposal was 26 -27. Is this you again Russell?
Russell Dyer - 0:16:09
Yeah I think this is just really summarising the guidance that was issued by the DFE. We've
attached the links in the report at 2 .2.
I think this report just seeks to summarise
some of the issues that flow from that
and also some of the more local implications
for setting the budget.
Most of this will be discussed at the January school forum.
And then if I can just take you to section 7 of the report,
that sets out the timetable for finalising
the formula and the budgets in the coming months. So I think we have got a bit of work
to do in terms of when the DSG settlement comes out later in December and the APT is
published and then we will be doing the work that we need to do so we can bring to the
13 January Schools Forum meeting our final report consulting the Schools Forum on the
decision regarding the formula itself.
But if I can just take you back to some of the changes.
The DFE have obviously set out the guidance on the National Funding Formula and the operational
guidance as well.
And the main features are set out at 2 .3 within the report itself.
I probably won't go through those in any detail.
but obviously there's some restrictions regarding local formulas. We need to move towards the
national funding formula. They want us to go basically a lot closer than we have done in
previous years. I think we're already quite close to the NFF values at the moment. So, I think
effectively they're looking for us to mirror what's within the NFF. It also sets out the requirements
regarding the minimum funding guarantee. So we need to be between minus 0 .5 % and 0 % on
that. I think we set out at 2 .6 our sort of proposal regarding the formula, the local
formula, to basically adopt the national funding formula and then adopt the minimum per pupil
funding and the values defined by the NFF and then set the MFG between not and
Andy Gillespie - 0:18:40
minus 0 .5 percent. Can I just ask for us, so 2 .5 C it says set a minimum funding
guarantee at and is that between 0 and minus 0 .5 percent? Yes it is. Okay and then the the
The point in 2 .3 at the bottom does say the funding for us set at 0%.
That ensures that no school will see a cash reduction in its pupil -led funding.
The pupil -led funding they attract compared to 25, 26.
So with that you could, am I misreading that?
Russell Dyer - 0:19:15
I think we'll just be setting it at minus 0 .5%, which I think is what we've done in
the previous years.
Okay.
Any questions on that?
Andy Gillespie - 0:19:25
Dana?
I suppose the only one for me is a practical one
Gaynor Bull - 0:19:35
in the sense that the Schools Forum is set for the 13th of January.
Will you be in a position to get the papers out on this, you know, a week before basically?
Bearing in mind, I know you've probably got holidays over that sort of time in between.
Russell Dyer - 0:19:53
I think we'll have to do our best. We may get a little bit late but we'll do our best to meet the timetable.
Michael Jarrett - 0:20:02
The other added complication is the fact that we don't get the settlement until days before Christmas, so it may well be that we've already broken up before we actually get the settlement.
So I think just for forum members to be alive to the fact that it could well be a late paper that comes in
is not because we haven't been tarred in terms of our response, it's just that we're waiting for the detail
to be able to prepare information for schools for them to consider.
Andy Gillespie - 0:20:24
So any other comments on that?

7 De-Delegation Proposals 2026/27

No, moving to 7 then, the de -delegation proposals for 26 -27. I don't think you've met yet, have we Janice?
So that will come back in January once you've met and will decide at the end of this meeting the date for the de -delegation meeting.
Janice Freeman - 0:20:54
The reports are there and I don't suspect they will change between them.
Okay.
Andy Gillespie - 0:21:02
Just in terms of some of the conversations we've had in previous de -delegation meetings
Gaynor Bull - 0:21:07
and we know that we're not in a position to carry any funding over now in de -delegation
which we could do in the past, would it be possible to make sure the committee have the
spend over the last few years plus the current spend to date in the current financial year
so that they can make an informed decision.
Because we always have a lot of debate
as to whether it should be the same as last year,
but if we're not spending it,
then we shouldn't be de -delegating it from the maintained schools.
OK.
Andy Gillespie - 0:21:40
Erm...
So now come to the School Support Pay Award.

8 Schools Support Pay Award

Is this Rachel?
Yes, so just to introduce myself, I am Rachel Shavow, the Head of People Services, newly
Rachel Shovell - 0:22:01
appointed to the role, so please forgive me if I don't have all the answers to your questions,
but I will endeavour to come back with any responses to those following the meeting if
unable to answer those.
So by way of introduction to the report, so the report sets out the context and the key
considerations for determining the pay award for school support staff and the senior appoints
and pay committee are responsible for agreeing the value of this award and the purpose of
this paper is to seek the school forum input into the considerations for the senior appointments
and Pay Committee in January at which point they will recommend a pay award in preparation
to go out to consultation. So this takes place against the backdrop of the economic pressures,
the inflation forecasts, the national pay awards and statutory changes such as the increase
in the national living wages and these factors will be considered alongside affordability
of the school's budgets. We have recently gone out with a questionnaire to our schools
seeking feedback from our schools on the proposals and at the moment that currently stands where
so information has come back from schools around potential suggested percentage increases
that we can share with the forum. So I guess the questions proposed to the forum are what
percentage pay award, would the schools form support for the staff, what maximum in budget
increase schools think they would be able to support, and what schools look to fund
in how would they look to fund that increase and the extent in which they would support
award affordable within the existing budget, and any additional comments that they would
like us to include in the SAPC consideration report.
Can I just cheque which point in the discussion would we be stopping the
podcast and excluding the press and public for this because there's the
School Support Pay Award, verbal report number 10 which is after that and if we are having
the discussion now I am just wondering. I think, I don't know if Rachel wants to hear
Andy Gillespie - 0:24:35
what the questions are in public session and then if you think there is anything that they
Clare Gray - 0:24:38
are asking that shouldn't be. Happy to do that. We can take that in private. Yep, happy
Andy Gillespie - 0:24:52
So any questions from schools forum members about the support staff pay award and the
report that you've just heard?
Can I just ask will the decision be made at the time of budget setting?
Because we've had this problem before, it's announced after schools have set their budgets
Jo Divers - 0:25:08
and it makes it incredibly difficult when we talk about recruitment of staff or retaining
staff if we don't know what that pay increment is.
So just an idea of time scales would be good.
Rachel Shovell - 0:25:21
So the recommendation will be put to the 21st of January so I don't know how that aligns with the second timetable?
Russell Dyer - 0:25:31
I think normally schools will set their budget between the 28th of February and the end of May.
So that would be before the proposal from the SACSI would be before that?
Andy Gillespie - 0:25:43
Okay, any other questions?
Yes.
I realise I'm not a...
No, that's fine.
The concept, the Sapsi recommendation is then usually put out to consultation.
So whilst the decision, whilst the meeting may be the 21st of January,
there will obviously be a consultation period after that to feed into your emergency.
How long will that consultation be?
That's 30 days.
Okay.
Any other questions?
and support staff pay award which obviously we fully funded from central government to
allay our fears about budgets. I haven't heard that by the way that's yeah would be nice.
Okay so if that's the end of the schools pay award. Item nine then is we now have the exclusion

9 Exclusion of the Press and Public

and the public. So Paul could you stop the webcast please?
Start or pause? Shall we do the data next meeting?

12 Date of Next Meeting

We can do the data next meeting and then. And then go back to private.
So the, and there's one other thing as well,
you've got the date of the next meeting down as 13th of January.
Has everyone got that in their diaries?
And whilst we are on the webcast,
it would be a really good point to just take note
that Gareth will be leaving, leaving Bux,
been a head deputy head and a head teacher before you took the leap across
10 years ago 12 years ago? I turned poacher turned gamekeeper eight years
ago to take this role. Eight years ago yeah I remember you being a member of Schools Forum
on this side of the fence so you have seen it right the way through so I know
we'd all like to wish you the best of luck and hope the new job works out as
well as you could expect it to. It's very kind Andy I've really enjoyed my 28
Andy Gillespie - 0:28:19
years in total in books so thank you. Wow 28 years. Okay if we can turn off the
the webcast now.
So anything else on the