Licensing (Premises) Sub-Committee - Wednesday 29 April 2026, 2:00pm - Buckinghamshire Council Webcasting

Licensing (Premises) Sub-Committee
Wednesday, 29th April 2026 at 2:00pm 

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  1. Cllr Heather Wallace
  2. Cllr Paul Griffin
  3. Cllr Heather Wallace
  4. Laura Heller
  5. Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
  6. Elly Cook
  7. Cllr Heather Wallace
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Share this agenda point
  1. Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
Share this agenda point
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Heather Wallace
  2. Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
  3. Cllr Heather Wallace
  4. Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
  5. Cllr Heather Wallace
  6. Applicant's Representative
  7. Interested Party
  8. Applicant's Representative
  9. Interested Party
  10. Applicant's Representative
  11. Cllr Heather Wallace
  12. Applicant's Representative
  13. Laura Heller
  14. Applicant's Representative
  15. Laura Heller
  16. Cllr Heather Wallace
  17. Laura Heller
  18. Cllr Heather Wallace
  19. Interested Party
  20. Applicant's Representative
  21. Interested Party
  22. Applicant's Representative
  23. Interested Party
  24. Applicant's Representative
  25. Interested Party
  26. Applicant's Representative
  27. Cllr Heather Wallace
  28. Laura Heller
  29. Cllr Heather Wallace
  30. Applicant's Representative
  31. Cllr Heather Wallace
  32. Applicant's Representative
  33. Interested Party
  34. Applicant's Representative
  35. Interested Party
  36. Cllr Heather Wallace
  37. Laura Heller
  38. Cllr Heather Wallace
  39. Cllr Matthew Hind
  40. Applicant's Representative
  41. Cllr Matthew Hind
  42. Applicant's Representative
  43. Cllr Matthew Hind
  44. Applicant's Representative
  45. Cllr Matthew Hind
  46. Applicant's Representative
  47. Cllr Heather Wallace
  48. Applicant's Representative
  49. Cllr Matthew Hind
  50. Cllr Heather Wallace
  51. Applicant's Representative
  52. Cllr Heather Wallace
  53. Applicant's Representative
  54. Cllr Heather Wallace
  55. Applicant's Representative
  56. Cllr Heather Wallace
  57. Applicant's Representative
  58. Cllr Heather Wallace
  59. Applicant's Representative
  60. Cllr Heather Wallace
  61. Applicant's Representative
  62. Cllr Heather Wallace
  63. Laura Heller
  64. Cllr Heather Wallace
  65. Cllr Paul Griffin
  66. Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
  67. Cllr Paul Griffin
  68. Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
  69. Cllr Paul Griffin
  70. Cllr Heather Wallace
  71. Applicant's Representative
  72. Cllr Paul Griffin
  73. Cllr Heather Wallace
  74. Applicant's Representative
  75. Interested Party
  76. Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
  77. Laura Heller
  78. Cllr Heather Wallace
  79. Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
  80. Cllr Heather Wallace
  81. Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
  82. Cllr Heather Wallace
  83. Applicant's Representative
  84. Cllr Heather Wallace
  85. Cllr Matthew Hind
  86. Interested Party
  87. Cllr Matthew Hind
  88. Interested Party
  89. Cllr Heather Wallace
  90. Interested Party
  91. Cllr Heather Wallace
  92. Laura Heller
  93. Cllr Heather Wallace
  94. Applicant's Representative
  95. Interested Party
  96. Laura Heller
  97. Cllr Heather Wallace
  98. Webcast Finished

Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:00:04
Okay, webcast has started. Right, hello, welcome everybody. So good afternoon, welcome to the
Buckinghamshire Council Licencing Subcommittee hearing in relation to the application for the
new premises at Burnwood Park, Oncott Road, Boorstool, HP 18 9XX. Just a bit of legal bit,
the as per the Licencing Act 2003 and regulations made there under, licencing subcommittees are not
from holding remote hearings as they're unaffected by the requirements relating
to the Local Government Act 1972 and therefore hearings may be conducted
online and attended remotely by members and officers. So the public and the press
can still hear and see the hearing through the live webcast and members of
the public are allowed into the virtual hearing to speak where they're
registered to do so. So, into introductions. Right, I'm the chairman of
this meeting. I'm also the chairman of the licencing committee and my name is Councillor
Heather Wallace and I'd like to introduce you to the other councillors and members of
the panel. So over to Matthew.
I am Matthew Hine, one of the councillors in the Missenden's in Bucks and a member of
the committee today.
Paul.
Good afternoon, my name is Paul Gryphon, although I say Paul Griff on the screen for some reason,
and I'm the ward councillor for the Ivors.
Cllr Paul Griffin - 0:01:28
And out of the three of us,
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:01:32
I've been selected to be the chairman for this meeting.
Like to introduce the officers, if we go to Laura.
Thank you, chair.
Laura Heller - 0:01:40
My name's Laura Heller.
I'm acting as legal advisor to the panel today.
Thank you.
Kerri -Ann.
Good afternoon.
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:01:48
Kerri -Ann Ashton, licencing officer
for Buckinghamshire Council.
And Ellie.
Elly Cook - 0:01:57
My name is Ellie Cook and I'm from Democratic Services. I'm clocking today's meeting.
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:02:05
Thank you. So also in attendance are the following who are involved with the hearing at various
stages of discussion of the application. So we've got the applicants representatives of James Jude,
General Manager of Burnwood Park Hotel and Golf Club. Welcome. We have Caroline King,
Regional Director of the Bitterbrook Hotels. Welcome. And we also have in attendance James
Stallard who's the Ballstore Parish meeting chair who's representing Mr Jackson, sorry I don't have
a name, first name for Mr Jackson who is unable to attend. We are also expecting and I can see
he's just joined Charles Pippa too. Right so I can confirm that if a relevant person is not present
their representations will have been read and will be considered when we reach a decision.
But I ask that nobody apart from the panel members and officers use the chat function please.
So we'll go on to item number three. Any apologies for absence?

1 Confirmation of Chairman

2 Introductory remarks by the Chairman

3 Apologies for absence

Apologies have been received from Councillor Robbins -Tushbury.
Thank you and obviously from Councillor Gomm who I'm standing in instead.
Okay, so agenda item number four. Now we're going to turn to the declarations of interest.

4 Declarations of interest

Do any members wish to declare any interest? Nothing to declare, Chair.
Good, excellent. So item number five, virtual licencing subcommittee hearing procedural rules,
which have been appended to the agenda pack. Please could all the parties in attendance
confirmed that they have seen and understood. The members, James, Caroline, thank you.
All right, excellent. So thank you. Right. The purpose of the hearing should be borne in mind
at all times to enable those with the right to appear to advance their point of view and
concerns to test the case of the opponents to assist the subcommittee to gather evidence and
understand the relevant issues. Please be reminded that parties should only address
the subcommittee in relation to the matters previously raised and submitted. The subcommittee
may depart from that procedure if it is considered necessary or critical to do so. Do we have
any preliminary issues?
Thank you, chair. Just to confirm that we received two emails from people who are unable
to attend today and they've asked for what would have been their verbal presentation
to be read, which I will read either at the end of my report or if you prefer when the
interested parties do their presentations?
Yeah, let's do it when the interested parties do their presentations and then we can keep them all together.
Thank you.
If you could remind me if I missed that, that'd be appreciated.
Okay, so agenda item number six, we now move to consider the officer's report.
And again, please note you should only address this subcommittee in relation to the matters previously raised.
Any late evidence will only be considered at the consent of all parties present.
So Carrie -Anne, would you like to present your report?
Thank you, Chair.
So the application has been submitted by BHCS Magnolia Ltd. in respect of Burnwood Park, Oncott Road, Borstal, HP 18 9XX.
The premises is a hotel and golf club situated within the village of Borstal.
The premises consists of a restaurant, bar, terrace, a private event space, spa treatment
rooms and an 18 hole golf course.
The premises previously held a licence under the name of Magnolia Golf Club and this licence
was surrendered back in July 2020.
A location plan showing the location is attached to the report marked as appendix 1.
This application is for a new premises licence to commence with immediate effect upon the
decision to grant by the licencing authority.
A copy of the application form is attached to the report marked as appendix 2.
The accompanying licence plan is attached as appendix 3.
During the consultation period, the applicant made a request for men's the hours they had
applied for and the hours the licenceable activities now saw are stated below.
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:06:51
So live music and recorded music indoors Sunday to Thursday 11 to midnight, Friday to Saturday
11 to 1am.
Late night refreshment every day from 11 to 1am.
sale of alcohol on the premises every day 11 to 1am and hours open to the public 24
hours.
The panel is asked to note that following deregulatory amendments to the licencing act
2003 the performance of amplified live music or recorded music does not require authorization
under a premises licence or a temporary event notice when playing on licenced premises that

5 Hearing Procedure Rules

6 Bernwood Park, Arncott Road, Boarstall, HP18 9XX

are authorised and open for sale of alcohol for audiences up to 500 between the hours
of 8 a .m. and 11 p .m. This means that if the application were to be granted, amplified
live or recorded music could be provided within the premises without the need for any additional
authorization. In terms of responsible authorities, during
the consultation period we received no objection responses from Thames Valley Police, Bucksfire
and the planning authority. No other responses were received.
In terms of interested parties, we received 10 valid objections during the 28 -day consultation
period and copies of the representations are attached as Appendix 7.
The additional comments that have been submitted following the amendments to the application
are attached as appendix 8.
So the relevant representations received broadly raised the following concerns under prevention
of crime and disorder.
Several of the representations expressed concern that late night alcohol sales combined with
live music until 1 a .m. may attract visitors from outside the village.
Given the village's very limited late night public transport offering, this could result
in increased vehicle traffic and may lead to antisocial behaviour associated with late
night drinking or drink driving.
Carrie -Anne, can I just interrupt you just one second? Sorry, something I didn't notice
at the beginning, which I do like when I'm holding these hearings. Could James and Charles
please put on their cameras just so that we can see them and ensure that they are actually
there and able. Thank you very much, James. And if Charles could do the same, thank you.
That's very kind of you. Right. Sorry, Carrie -Anne.
Under the prevention of public nuisance, representations mention concern over the proposed hours for
live and recorded music and alcohol sales. The customer dispersal could give rise to
risk of public nuisance and concerns regarding the quiet rural location and the impact noise
travel at night, increasing the risk to disturbance to residents.
It is noted that Burnwood Park is located close to the centre of Borsall Parish and it's less than 170 metres from the nearest residential properties.
Under the protection of children from harm, representations state that irregular late night activities associated with alcohol sales and entertainment until 1am could lead to disturbances affecting children living in the village.
Under public safety, concerns have been expressed regarding public safety, particularly as Boar
Storrs rural lanes are narrow and largely unlit.
Increased vehicle movements and pedestrians leaving the premises in the early hours could
prevent a safety risk.
In terms of representations, we can only consider comments that are relevant to the licenced
black activities being applied for and representations must relate to the impact of licenced black
activities carried on from the premises on the objectives.
For example, we are not able to consider comments based on planning matters, moral objections
and based on commercial need or demand.
In addition to the mandatory conditions, the licencing subcommittee should consider those
conditions offered in the operating schedule and decide whether they are appropriate for
the promotion of the licencing objectives and address any valid representations made
by interested parties.
These are set out in section 10 of the report.
When determining this application, the licencing authority must have regard to the council's
statement of licencing policy published in March 22.
Licencing under the 2003 act is consoled solely with the promotion of the four statutory licencing
objectives which are prevention of crime and disorder, public safety, prevention of public
nuisance and the protection of children from harm.
Each objective carries equal importance and there are no other statutory licencing objectives.
The licencing authority must exercise its function with a view to promoting these objectives
and the policy sets out how this will be achieved.
Part C of the policy states the licencing authority seeks to encourage the highest standards
of management in licenced premises and expects this to be demonstrated through the operating
schedule. The policy seeks to balance the interests of business and residents to ensure
that the provision of well -managed, high -quality licence premises within an environment that
is safe and attractive to residents, businesses and visitors.
Conditions are considered a key mechanism in promoting the licencing objectives and
applicants are expected to have risk assessed their operation before applying. Applicants
are encouraged to engage with the licencing authority and responsible authorities at an
early stage. Where relevant representations are received, the licencing authority must
consider whether additional or amended conditions are appropriate to promote the licencing objectives.
Breaches of any licence conditions constitute an offence under Section 136 of the Licencing
Act. The licencing authority may draw upon its published pool of conditions where appropriate
and in line with case law and may review or refine proposed conditions to ensure that
they are clear, proportionate and enforceable.
Under the prevention of public nuisance, public nuisance includes noise, light, odour, litter
and similar disturbances that affect nearby residents or businesses.
The licencing authority seeks to protect residential amenity while recognising the importance of
licence premises to the local economy and community life.
In assessing applications, particular regard is given to the adequacy of measures proposed
to prevent public nuisance and significant weight is attached to the views and recommendations
of environmental health.
Relevant considerations include prevention of noise escape from the premises, management
of customers' arrival and departures, the use and supervision of outside areas, parking
arrangements, delivery and waste collection arrangements, lighting arrangements, litter
management provision and the existence of a clear complaints procedure.
Where appropriate conditions may be imposed to ensure that outside areas are properly
controlled and do not give rise to nuisance to nearby residents.
In terms of antisocial behaviour, licencing is not the primary mechanism for controlling
antisocial behaviour away from premises. However, it forms part of a wider holistic approach
to managing impacts associated with licenced premises. The licencing policy recognises
that in certain circumstances individual premises can contribute to antisocial behaviour and
that conditions may be appropriate to mitigate any associated risks.
Under the prevention of crime and disorder, the Council has a statutory duty under Section
17 of the Crime and Disorder Act to consider crime reduction and the prevention of antisocial
behaviour in the exercise of its functions.
And the licencing authority looks the Thames Valley Police as the primary source of advice
on crime and disorder matters.
Applicants are expected to demonstrate within their operating schedule how crime prevention
will be promoted taking into account local circumstances and operating context.
Where appropriate conditions may include measures such as CCTV which should be installed, operated
and maintained in consultation with the police and in compliance with data protection legislation.
In terms of public safety, applicants must demonstrate they have assessed and managed
risks to public safety. Duties under other legislation including the Health and Safety
at Work Act and the Regulatory Reform Fire Safety Order 2005 remain applicable.
While the licencing authority does not duplicate other statutory controls, it will scrutinise
whether sufficient measures are in place to promote the public safety objective.
Relevant considerations may include permitted safety, permitted capacity limits,
safe access and egress, lighting and signage, fire safety equipment, maintenance and inspection
records, staff training and emergency procedures.
Under the protection of children from harm, the policy states the protection of children
from harm is a core licencing objective and a key priority for Buckinghamshire Council.
Licenced premises can present particular risks to children and young people, including exposure
to alcohol, disorder, inappropriate behaviour or other harms.
Applicants are expected to demonstrate appropriate safeguards in their operating schedules to
protect children from physical, moral or psychological harm, including measures to prevent underage
access to alcohol and inappropriate environments.
Regard must also be had to the national guidance issued under the Home Office under Section
182 of the Licencing Act.
The Section 182 guidance confirms that licencing functions must focus on the promotion of the
licencing objectives, all of which are of equal importance.
There are no other statutory licencing objectives and the promotion of these objectives is of
paramount consideration in all licencing determinations.
Under the Prevention of Crime and Disorder, the guidance states that licencing authorities
should look to the police as the primary source of advice on matters related to crime and
disorder. Conditions imposed to promote this objective should be targeted, proportionate
and preventative. Where appropriate, measures such as the installation and operation of
CCTV may be effective in deterring crime, disorder and antisocial behaviour. Any such
conditions should be sufficiently clear, enforceable and proportionate and should not impose unnecessary
burdens on the licence holder. In relation to public safety, licence holders have a responsibility
to ensure the safety of persons using their premises. This relates to physical safety,
including the prevention of accidents and injuries and immediate harms associated with
alcohol consumption. Relevant considerations may include fire safety arrangements, safe
access and exit from the premises and the use of CCTV where appropriate.
In relation to public nuisance, the 2003 Licencing Act allows licencing authorities to consider
what constitutes public nuisance and what conditions may be appropriate to prevent it.
Public nuisance is broadly defined and may include noise, light pollution, odour, litter
and impacts on residential amenity.
In determining applications, the focus should be on the impact of licenced activities at
the premises, on persons living or working nearby, particularly during sensitive periods
such as late evening and the night time hours.
Conditions intended to address public nuisance should be tailored to the nature and characteristics
of the premises, proportionate to the risk identified and should avoid unnecessary restricting
of activities that are valuable to the local community where the licencing objectives can
otherwise be adequately promoted.
Conditions relating to noise nuisance will usually concern steps to control the levels
of noise emanating from premises.
This might be achieved by a simple measure such as ensuring that doors and windows are
kept closed after a particular time or persons are not permitted in the garden areas of premises
after a certain time.
Beyond the immediate area surrounding the premises, these are matters for the personal
responsibilities of individuals under the law.
An individual who engages in antisocial behaviour is accountable in their own right.
However, it would be perfectly reasonable for a licencing authority to impose a condition
following relevant representations that requires the licence holder to place signs at the exits
from the premises, encouraging patrons to be quiet until they leave the area or if they
wish to smoke to do so at a designated place on the premises and to respect the rights
of people living nearby to a peaceful night.
Under the protection of children from harm, the section 182 guidance states protection
of children from harm includes safeguarding against physical, moral and psychological
harm, including exposure to alcohol disorder, inappropriate language or behaviour and wider
risks such as sexual exploitation. Licencing authorities must consider whether appropriate
measures are in place to protect children when carrying out their licencing functions.
The panel is required to have regard to human rights. The decision regarding this application
will have human rights implications to both the applicant and the persons making relevant
representations which also need to be considered equally and fairly so that the decision is
proportionate and the right balance is met.
You should also consider Article 8 and Article 1 of the first protocol, the right to respect
for private and family life and peaceful enjoyment of property and possessions and this can also
include a licence. The subcommittee is obliged to determine applications in light of the
above and any other material considerations with a view to promoting the four licencing
objectives which are prevention of crime and disorder, public safety, prevention of public
nuisance and protection of children from harm. Regard must also be had to the council's licencing
policy, home office guidance issued under section 182 of the licencing act, relevant
representations received and the evidence presented today at the hearing.
Each application must be considered on its own merit and any conditions attached to the
premises licence must be tailored to the individual style and characteristics of the premises.
This is essential to avoid the imposition of disproportionate and overly burdensome
conditions on premises.
Standardised conditions should be avoided and indeed may be unlawful, where they cannot
be shown to promote the licencing objectives in any individual case.
The subcommittee must avoid duplication of other legal requirements and should only impose
conditions on a premises licence which are appropriate and proportionate for the promotion
of the licencing objectives and where additional or supplementary measures are required in
order to promote the licencing objectives.
The following options are available to the subcommittee.
To grant the premises licence, subject to any conditions which are consistent with the
operating schedule and which are considered appropriate and proportionate for the promotion
of the licencing objectives in response to any relevant representations received.
Exclude from the scope of the premises licence any of the licence activities to which the
application relates, refuse to specify a person in the licence granted above as the premises
supervisor, reject the whole of the application or grant the premises licence subject to different
conditions for different parts of the premises or reduced activities if this is considered
appropriate and proportionate to promote the licencing objectives and in response to representations
The subcommittee is asked to note that it may not reject the whole or part of the application
or attached conditions merely because it considers it desirable to do so and must actually be
appropriate and proportionate in order to promote the four licencing objectives and
be a response to representations received and full reasons must be given to the licencing
subcommittee.
Section 10 of the report contains the redrafted proposed licencing conditions to ensure that
are enforceable from the ones that are originally proposed in the application.
That concludes my report chair and I'm happy to answer any questions.
That's lovely, thank you very much Kerry -Ann. So do the applicants representatives wish to
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:24:23
put any questions to the licencing officer? So that's Caroline or James.
Sorry, no, no, no questions.
No questions. Okay, thank you very much.
Okay, so do any of the interested party, that's James or Charles, do you have any questions you'd like to put to the licencing officer?
Nothing from me, thank you.
Lovely, thank you very much. Okay, so members, Matthew, Councillor Hind, do you have any questions you'd like to ask?
Not at this time. Okay. And Councillor Gryphon?
Nothing at this stage, Chair. Thank you.
Nothing at that stage. Okay, so I just got a quick question. Who was the holder previously and were there any special conditions attached to their licence?
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:25:24
Bear with me just as...
No, that's fine. I don't mind waiting to get the correct answer.
I have a copy of the licence up in one of my many windows. That is open. Bear with me just a sec.
Magnolia Park Trading UK Limited.
Okay, and did they have any special conditions applied to their licence?
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:25:59
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:26:01
So they, the previous premises licence was part of a conversion from a magistrate's licence
and a public entertainment licence that they had from the local authority that were combined
together in 2005 to make up the premises licence. I'm just scrolling to the bottom just to see
whether there was any additional conditions on the licence. No, it was just the standard
conditions that were on the public entertainment licence, there was no additional conditions.
So were they able to say have a wedding until 1am on a Wednesday evening or did or is there
conditions against their hours? So the previous hours for the sale of alcohol was Monday to
Friday to Saturday 10 a .m. to 2 a .m. and Sunday 12 to 1030.
And then your live music and recorded music, et cetera, et cetera, was 11 to 11 Monday
to Thursday, 11 to 2am Friday to Saturday and 12 to 10 .30 on a Sunday.
Okay lovely, thank you very much for that. It's good to just know what was there before.
Right okay so we'll go on to now the next section which is where the representatives of the
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:27:48
applicant today can speak. So, James, Jude or Caroline Kim, which one would you like
to speak, or would you both?
I think James is going to speak and I'll be there to support or clarify anything.
Lovely. Right. Over to you then, James.
Applicant's Representative - 0:28:09
Sorry, sorry, do you want me to answer any particular question?
No, no, no, what we're asking you is do you have a speech or do you want to put your case
forward for this application?
I wrote a few words if I can read it through. Just to say that I'm James Deodam, General
Manager at Burnwood Park and I'm responsible for the day -to -day operations. We operate
as a managed hotel and event menu with pre -booked activities and not as a late night bar.
We do recognise the sort of sensitivity of a rural area and we will actively
manage the noise and outdoor use, guest behaviour and dispersal especially.
Okay thank you. You said you're the manager so are you actually going to be on site
because your address is in Suffolk, isn't it? I'm General Manager, yes, I would be at the hotel,
yes. So you'll be moving to the hotel then? Yes. Moving to glorious Buckinghamshire, as other words.
Right, okay, good, we just needed to know that. So right, so we'll go on to questions then to
yourselves, unless Caroline you want to say anything in addition? No, I just, that we as
Hotel Management Company. We have 70 hotels across the UK. We work closely with the community
and you know part of our outlook is that you know as James has mentioned that we aren't a late night
venue and everything is pre -booked so I mean obviously if someone's dropping by for a dinner
in the restaurant they'll have probably a reservation and obviously we have our rooms,
we have 40 rooms of which people can come and stay and then you
know possibly weddings on a on a Saturday night as such
we're responsible licensees. Okay thank you. Right, does the
licencing officer have any questions she'd like to put to in terms of
Caroline? And I hope everyone doesn't mind me
using first names. No, it's fine. No, please do. No questions, Chair, thank you. Thank you very much.
Right, any of the interested parties? So James and Charles, this is your opportunity to ask any
questions. James? Yeah, the parish is particularly concerned about noise leakage from the venue
Interested Party - 0:30:55
This has been historically caused by a faultless opening of the terrace doors that lead out onto the golf course,
which has caused in the past very significant noise leakage and disturbance for our neighbours.
Can you reassure us that that is not going to continue?
Applicant's Representative - 0:31:19
We've changed all the glazing in that area and in the public areas, the restaurant, the function room and the bar are all now fully air conditioned and we will hopefully reduce the need for the doors to be open.
But also we've managed with regards to timing, you know, that no access after 11 o 'clock into the terraced areas, except for we'll have a designated space for smokers because there will be occasions when people will still want to go outside to smoke or bathe.
Yes, they will and they will prop a door open behind them with a fire extinguisher or some such.
Interested Party - 0:32:00
Ask me how I know.
Applicant's Representative - 0:32:07
You were on site when it was a run as Magnolia Park.
Many times. So, but we'll have CCTV basically monitoring, so we'll be
actively managing the exits from the property
and staff will be properly trained to ensure
that we're monitoring the the curbside so that people aren't
making any noise as such but just having their smoke or vape as they do these days.
I think the other thing is in terms of any functions in the function room as we mentioned
before they are pre -booked and we will reiterate the late evening policy to anybody booking the
space and obviously the duty manager on site or myself will monitor door exits especially late
at night. It's something we would normally do.
And James we would also give you telephone numbers so that if there was a
concern that you could call us so that we could manage the situation
if for some reason we weren't aware but we hoped that we wouldn't be in that
situation.
Are you going to be wanting a call from me at two o 'clock in the morning?
Well yes if it's causing you issues and you're not sleeping of course
want to hear from you because if you're not sleeping that would mean that the
others aren't sleeping within the village
and likely that the guest site might not be sleeping so
we wouldn't want to be disturbing the peace at two o 'clock in the morning so
you have my word on that. To quantify that
people you wouldn't have your telephone number Caroline it would be
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:33:49
the DPS or a duty manager on site. Yes. Yes. Telephone number. Yeah. We have a
Applicant's Representative - 0:33:57
24 hour management operation. Okay good good. All right so I'd like to bring in Laura now.
Laura Heller - 0:34:03
Thank you chair, there has been some discussion around telephone numbers being provided for
members of the public to report any issues which hopefully don't but if they did crop up
could be dealt with and there's also been some talk around staff monitoring outside areas to try
and ensure that there isn't a public nuisance cause to residents.
And I just wonder whether the applicant would be content to offer any conditions around that
which may seek to alleviate some of the residents concerns.
And if you were able to offer those, I could perhaps draught some wording and pop that in the chat for you to review
to see if that would be something you would be willing to agree to?
Applicant's Representative - 0:35:03
Oh well we'd have we're happy to take on board suggestions. We might not be able to decide
in this meeting today and we might need to come back and let the committee know.
But yes you know we're open to suggestions. I mean you know having signs leaving the
the property, you know, please be aware of our neighbours and, you know, we have
Laura Heller - 0:35:31
designated smoking areas. What were you suggesting, Laura? So, for example, I can pop some wording in the chat now.
So, if you have... Just to bring in here, while Laura puts that wording in there, we have done this with many other
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:35:45
organisations, many other pubs or places of entertainment and it's been readily accepted,
so it's normal practise for us to suggest that you consider it and other entities have considered it
accept it. As Laura said, she's popped it onto the chat so have a read and then if you need a little
bit longer than just this little segment then just put your hand up and let me know, okay?
Laura Heller - 0:36:13
Yeah, so obviously you don't need to give an opinion right this second, but if you can consider before the end of the hearing
So for example one that I've just popped in the chat is the premises licence holder or their representative
Shall ensure that any patrons drinking or smoking outside the premises do so in an orderly manner and are properly supervised
By staff to ensure that there is no public nuisance
That is picking up on your suggestion
that staff will be monitoring
outside areas
to ensure
that residents
are not disturbed.
Here is another suggestion
in the chat.
Notices
of a minimum
A4 size
shall be prominently
displayed
in any area
used for smoking
representing
requesting
patrons to respect
the needs of
local residents
and use the area
quietly.
That is a good
physical reminder to people who who may be in that area.
Yeah, I'm fine with those.
I'm just, there was another. Don't worry James, we haven't forgot you, we're coming back.
And I think there was windows and doors mentioned, the pop and open of windows and doors.
So for example, just as an example, there's a condition here.
All windows and external doors shall be kept closed after,
and there could be a time put in there, 9pm, 10pm, 11pm, whatever the case may be,
except for the immediate access and egress of persons.
And so what that does is puts into a licence condition,
you know, so that doors shouldn't be propped open,
and then noise potentially travel outside.
So if you could just have a think about those,
there may be other things
where I interject during the hearing,
and then if by the end of the hearing,
you could just give your opinion on that,
that would be helpful.
Sure. Thank you, Laura.
Thank you.
Okay, so we're still on your section, James and Charles.
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:38:22
So if you want your next item, Charles?
Interested Party - 0:38:30
Shall we let Charles? Yes, Charles? Do you want to take yourself off mute?
What would be the maximum capacity of events indoors for weddings and functions?
It's 100, Charles. So if somebody said, well can we not put a marquee up on the
outside to have 200, what would you say?
Applicant's Representative - 0:38:54
I would consider the options.
So how do you soundproof a marquee?
Interested Party - 0:38:58
Applicant's Representative - 0:39:01
It may not happen. I would consider the options at the time.
It depends, Charles, it would also depend on the time of the wedding. So if someone said they
wanted to get married at 11 and they wanted the wedding to go through till five o 'clock in the
afternoon, then I would say that that wouldn't be a problem. But if they wanted to consider
going through to 11 at night, then that would be a problem because we wouldn't be able to contain
Interested Party - 0:39:33
the noise. Well, can there be a clause that there could not be external events outside of
Applicant's Representative - 0:39:41
some different hours from the licencing provision? I think we'd like to, you know, should we get an
event that we think that we'd like to host.
I think we'd like to then apply for a special licence to be able to host that.
So it wouldn't be, you know, on, you know, it wouldn't be you could
host it, you would need to get a licence and therefore
we would then be notifying under the special licences that we would like to
hold a function. I don't know what that would be for but
maybe it would be for a wedding. But 100 isn't that many is it for a
Interested Party - 0:40:11
Applicant's Representative - 0:40:14
these days? Well, with our kitchen, you know, we need to be able to provide more, you know,
cooking facilities to do more than a hundred. So, I mean, we can do a hundred for a wedding,
and we can do, you know, obviously people in the restaurant, but if you were to go outside
that number, I think the logistics of actually running that style of function would be slightly
more challenging for us. Do you anticipate that the bar at the clubhouse will have outside
tables and chairs? Yes, it will. This is a concern. Golfers can celebrate just as well
as anybody else can.
Yeah, yeah.
And there's no point in having double closing
if you're outside.
No, there is a terrace at the golf club.
I think they said earlier,
correct me if I'm wrong,
but that the doors and windows would be closed at 11.
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:41:20
For example, at 11 p .m.,
which means that anybody outside would be told
they have to go inside or leave.
That's the normal practise.
Laura have you got anything you want to add on that from the legal side?
Laura Heller - 0:41:37
No, I don't think so. Okay yeah clearly it's just for the panel to explore
how potentially the premises is seeking to run, to move that impact on the licencing objectives.
exactly. So maybe James and Caroline could it would that be something that you would agree to
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:42:06
that at 11 o 'clock you would ask people to move inside or leave the premises so they're not
standing outside on the terrace? Well I'd say you know with our licencing for you know people having
Applicant's Representative - 0:42:17
a drink yes 11 o 'clock would be reasonable definitely. Okay and you know they could then
come inside if they you know wanted you know a further drink but yes outside you
know everyone needs to be back inside by 11.
So I've still got your hand up, do you have any more questions? I can put my virtual hand up.
Right lovely okay James do you have any more questions to James and Caroline?
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:42:44
Yes thank you, another major concern of the village is traffic generated late at
The officer providing the report, thank you, pointed out that many of the roads are unlit.
Actually all of the roads are unlit.
I don't think there's a street light within half a mile of the hotel in any direction.
The roads are all very narrow, especially the roads immediately adjacent to the hotel.
we are concerned about late night traffic on small roads that they don't
know as these are not going to be locals attending your events and we are
concerned about late night drunk driving. What measures can you and or the
licencing authority put in place to reduce that?
Well, we should be, as licensees, we should be responsible service of alcohol.
So should a patron look like that they're drinking too much is really to control their
drinking.
So offering them water so that they take a break in drinking to ensure.
Well, it goes back to the responsible service of alcohol
and that is a priority to make sure
that we don't cause issues on the country lanes and roads
when people leave the building.
Also, if you have a designated driver,
we're very happy to offer designated drivers drinks
as in soft drinks, complimentary,
so that you have a designated driver
that is leaving the premises
Applicant's Representative - 0:44:33
that has no alcohol in their system so that they can navigate the roads
leaving the hotel and prevent those type of issues that you've raised James.
Thank you. James, the other thing is maybe with the any events we'll provide a list of taxi
numbers and kind of reiterate to people that it is a rural environment. I think
that can be quite proactive. Okay sorry who was just speaking oh sorry yes I was
gonna say do you have anything more to say? Well to add to the previous points
Interested Party - 0:45:20
and appreciating that we're staying off planning matters however during the
planning process.
The organisation, I can't say the applicant as it predates the applicant's
existence, proudly toted their minibus service
that they were planning on offering to and from the local train stations.
Are you guys going to make good on that
promise? We can definitely, you know, if should
Applicant's Representative - 0:45:53
We need to provide a minibus, as in like people are staying at other hotels because we can't accommodate everyone.
And we're definitely happy to look into offering that service to another hotel or to a train station.
It was to the train stations that you made the offer.
Interested Party - 0:46:15
Is there anything that can be built into conditions to support this?
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:46:25
That would be a question for Laura to look into and potentially if you maybe have an answer for us now.
Laura Heller - 0:46:32
I think the panel could impose conditions which they felt were necessary and proportionate, which addressed concerns regarding the licencing objectives.
It would really be a matter for the panel to
consider all of the evidence that they hear
today
around any concerns for example public safety
and to assess the strength of the weight
that they would put on those concerns
and whether or not the conditions
offered currently in the operating schedule
go some way to meet those concerns
or whether or not they need to impose
additional conditions over the next few
above that but anything imposed by the panel must be appropriate, necessary and
proportionate and so the panel would have to carefully consider that.
Yes they offered it. Well that's up to them.
Is that it sorry whereabouts in their application has that been offered or are
that the previous? It was part of their planning application they made the offer
during the planning consultation meeting. Right I understand what you're saying. Not the consultation meeting, the actual planning
permission meeting I do apologise. The planning procedure is a separate
procedure so I take on forward what you've said in relation to I mean I
I can't comment on what was and wasn't said,
but that is a separate process in effect.
So the matter today under consideration,
the panel have to have the licencing objectives
at the absolute heart of their decision -making.
And as I said, any conditions must be deemed appropriate
and proportionate.
And so the panel after hearing all the evidence today
will go away and determine all of that and consider what evidence they've
heard and what weight they give to any particular evidence that they've heard
from a party today. Thank you. Thank you. Any more points that you want to raise at
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:48:58
this moment? I have no more questions, thank you. Lovely, thank you. Charles your
camera's gone off so I'm not sure if you have any questions. No, I haven't got any more questions.
Thank you very much. Okay so over to members so if I start with Matthew, Councillor Hine.
Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:49:12
Do you have any questions? You're on mute Matthew.
Enough now, sorry. James I'm interested to understand a bit better the business model for
are we looking at a hotel that has a golf course or a golf course that has a hotel? Is there
Is it either or both or what?
Applicant's Representative - 0:49:35
It's a hotel and we are sitting in a golf course.
The two businesses are going to be
obviously all under our control,
but two separate business models.
So we'll be focusing on the hotel in terms of
sort of events, food and beverage,
people staying the weekend, visiting the area,
um leisure corporate guests as well and then the club is predominantly going to be a members club.
Okay how many maximum guests can you have? 100 was it?
Uh we have 40 rooms so 80 guests in in the hotel.
Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:50:16
So so if we're looking at two separate businesses effectively it's not going to be lots of
golf weekends organised with, you know, with golf societies and things like that. Is that...?
Yes, we will be open to that business but we're predominantly membership based. That's our aim.
Okay. But we will be open to societies, corporate days, that kind of thing. Do you know how many
members were there before the closure of the previous...? I think about 350, something like that.
Applicant's Representative - 0:50:46
Okay, so it's a reasonable number.
Yes.
Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:50:51
Where have they all gone? Are they, I guess, and the course, obviously you got the course back to its previous level. It looks very nice.
Applicant's Representative - 0:51:01
We're not 100 % there yet, but we're working hard on it.
Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:51:07
Okay. Tell me, where were most of your staff? Were most of your staff live in the hotel or were they come from this to another town from your time?
Applicant's Representative - 0:51:14
The sort of senior team and the people that we've engaged already are mostly from sort of the Bicester area, but we will have people arrive sort of in, sort of a night team may arrive with night cleaners, but they will be brought to the hotel.
Sure. I was thinking about the bar staff and the waiting, bar staff in particular.
I think they're going to be local people.
So not living in, but so yeah.
No, we don't have any living accommodation.
No, just out of interest. How many staff would you need?
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:51:48
The headcount is about 45 for the full operation.
Applicant's Representative - 0:51:54
And you're looking at predominantly local people?
Oh yes.
Oh yeah. I mean most of the people are within, you know, within a 10k radius probably.
Okay, keep it in Buckinghamshire, not in Oxfordshire. You're on the border there.
We'll do our best.
Sorry Matthew, have you got any more questions?
Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:52:18
Yeah, just really about those two points about where the staff is. So basically you're going
to, if you've got a function on you will recruit extra staff to support the function, but you're
it's not like you've got staff waiting to work and you trying to occupy them as it were by generating
business. No it's just labour by demand basically. Labour by demand okay yeah that's fair enough.
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:52:47
Okay thanks. So I've just got another quick question then, so how many functions per week
are you expecting? The first year we've had no presence in the area for a long time so
we're conscious that that that that level of business will take it take time to ramp up.
But I suppose a hotel like us, Caroline, sort of two weddings a week maybe next year we're hoping
or maybe more? I think realistically you're probably looking at about 30 it's maybe 20 to
30 weddings next year. Weddings always take a long time to plan, lead times, obviously people need to
and then we'll have to save and weddings don't need to go up to
100. I would say that we're probably the sweet spot is probably around the 70
mark so and then it's just the weekends usually for weddings
on a Saturday so maybe 20 during our first year of operation.
I mean our first year of operation now you know we'd be lucky if we get 10
I would think.
And then obviously then going 26 to 27 to 28,
we'd be, hopefully we could achieve 20.
But weddings obviously are not as strong as they used to be.
Obviously after the pandemic,
everyone wanted to get married.
Now it's more about costs.
So it's about managing that.
And probably during the weekdays,
any sort of business retreats,
those people that are coming away
for business strategy days or team days with their teams.
So that type of business.
And I know that we originally said that it was a spa,
but it's more wellness.
We just have three treatment rooms and a nail bar.
Applicant's Representative - 0:54:33
So it's not really a spa spa.
We don't have any sort of water treatments
or anything along those lines.
It's more massages and nails.
That preamps another question.
Okay, so what about sort of like 30, 40, 50,
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:54:50
80th birthday parties? Are they something that you feel you might get?
Applicant's Representative - 0:54:54
I mean we'd love to be able to within the community we'd love to be able to
hold you know family occasions for people to come through and celebrate
with their families whether it's a christening, whether as
you've mentioned whether it's the 30th birthday or whether it's the
grandparents 60th wedding anniversary you know those those
things but it's you know some of those will be held in the restaurant
not necessarily the function area and the function area as we said is only
a hundred so it is and it's a room that's got some
pillars in there so it's got lovely aspect over the
first hole but it's not a you know big
commercial function room as such. It's small and
intimate.
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:55:41
treatment for fees for local people. Anyway, I'm only joking, I'm not being serious.
Okay, so do you have any like floodlights? Because I'm just thinking about, you know,
because I live in a place with no street lights either and of course when somebody even has their
light on in front of the house there's a lot of light suddenly in a very dark area and floodlights
are even worse. Do you have any like floodlights around the property, in the building or the course?
Applicant's Representative - 0:56:07
or no not not not late at night everything has been uh planned through uh sort of a low level
lighting there's no lighting on the buildings or anything excellent because obviously that's better
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:56:22
for um night wildlife as well right um so do you expect the public just to be coming along for just
a drink in the evening you know obviously with big concerns about people who trying to beat the
closing hours and come to a hotel for late night drinking i think how would you manage that if it
Applicant's Representative - 0:56:37
if that did occur? I think as Matthew and James have said you know we're in a
rural area it's not like we have heaps of passing
traffic it's not like you get in the car well I don't think you
get in the car and drive to Burnwood. I think it's more more of a
destination like you know you're going because of family having dinner there
or you're going because you're staying there.
It's not as such as people are leaving the pub down the road to come and have a
with us because we wouldn't be serving our non -residents after 11 o 'clock in the evening.
It's more about the residents that are in the property that are staying with us,
yes of course we'd look after them but after throwing out time in pubs we don't
anticipate people coming to us and nor will we serve them. Okay and then my last question before
hand over to Councillor Gryphon is you mentioned you got some top levels staff already, managers
Cllr Heather Wallace - 0:57:34
already you know appointed or about to be appointed. Do you know who your DPS is, who's
going to be on site? You know the buck stops here person or is that going to be yourself
Applicant's Representative - 0:57:50
or? That's myself. So who's the deputy when you because I imagine you're allowed a few
hours off, you know, a month. Occasionally we have a food and beverage manager. He
he will be the sort of appointed person when I'm not there and the other duty managers as well.
We'll have three or four to be to be fair. Okay that's good and then my absolutely very last
question is training of the staff. So obviously the safeguarding initiatives like for example
Angela, or even as we've just mentioned about who's going to be patrolling to make sure that
doors and windows after 11 o 'clock are closed, what training plans do you have for them?
Duty managers will sort of have a full overview of the property and how it operates and that they're
all sort of accountable systems so that each individual has responsibilities. If we had a
wedding, there will be a designated person to that room
and their responsibility level would be to ensure the windows
are shut, ensure the doors are shut, ensure people come back
in quickly if they do go outside. It's a I suppose it's
a usual operation for us, isn't it Caroline to maintain that
kind of. So we have all our compliance training is all
tracked and monitored. so all staff need to have compliance
training and then obviously we've got ct tv so we do have cameras or a screen at the front desk so
that you can see what's happening across the property. We also have a logging mechanism that
we make sure that you know the staff are walking the floors to ensure that all the doors are closed
and there is a tapping system where you tap and then we can print out a report that shows that
that was checked at 11 o 'clock it was checked at 2 a .m it was checked at 5 a .m so we have a
a log. We also have an incidence report so that we can track everything on a daily basis
and as James has mentioned we'd make sure that you know at 11 o 'clock that's the chosen hour
that everyone is in from being out on the terrace and making sure that the doors are closed.
What about the other safeguarding initiatives I mentioned like Ask for Angela?
Yes, yes, Ask for Angela would be prevalent in the bathrooms and all staff would be trained on
Ask for Angela to be able to take that staff or that guest into a safe environment so they could
be escorted off the property or escorted to their room. So yes, we would definitely have Ask for Angela.
Cllr Heather Wallace - 1:00:35
And do you have the policy of lone female guests being put into rooms, are you well away from
like not on the ground floor and away from fire escapes etc.
Applicant's Representative - 1:00:44
Yeah so our rooms are in a on a separate wing to where the public areas are and yes they could go
onto the second floor because we have or first floor because we have just three floors.
I was only aware of two.
Two floors, well ground and first.
But is that a policy or is that a yes they can do that if they want to ask for it or is that a
policy? Well it would be down to the room
type of the guest that the guest is booking and whether the guest would, you
know, we'd ask the guest, we take them to the guest the room if they're not happy
we'd ring the guest, you know, after 20 minutes of them arriving to say, you
know, are you happy with your room? And if they're not happy then we can
move them and if they wanted a different style of
room we can also take that into a common, into
we can move them. Just think about safeguarding of women and girls, you know,
in this age the white ribbon is something that we're all very aware of so it's something we want
to mention. So bringing thank you very much for that so I'd like to bring in Laura who's got
Cllr Heather Wallace - 1:01:49
Laura Heller - 1:01:52
something to say I'm not sure what subject but thank you chair. Chair just to raise that earlier
on when I was talking about other potential conditions for the applicant to consider
There was also mention of a telephone number
being provided
for residents.
I have popped some wording into the chat
for the applicant to consider
which would put that into a condition.
It says a direct telephone number
for the manager at the premises
shall be publicly available
at all times
if the premises
is open.
This telephone number
is to be made available
.
I will amend that slightly
to
it should be made available to residents and businesses in the facility basically.
It's just so that members of the public have that direct contact and also
there's been mention of the outside areas being in effect closed to drinking
I assume because people still need to be able to go out that side there to smoke
of course because they can't smoke indoors. So I have popped again some
wording for a condition around that which says customers will not be permitted to consume alcohol
in outside areas of the premises after 11pm staff will monitor this so again if the applicant can
just have a think about that and I can pick that up at the end of the hearing. Thank you.
Cllr Heather Wallace - 1:03:22
Thank you. Right over to Councillor Paul Gryphon. You've got any questions?
Cllr Paul Griffin - 1:03:25
Thank you chair. Well I think you and my colleagues have covered things off pretty
comprehensively to be fair. Something that did leap out at me from the, from
Kerianne's report initially was when we were looking at the hours of operation,
proposed hours, live music, recorded music, as well as, yeah, and on sale of alcohol.
It just jumped out at me. Maybe I've misunderstood it but please correct me.
You're proposing or you're asking on New Year's specifically from the start of the permitted hours on New Year's Eve to the end of the permitted hours on New Year's Day.
So that if New Year's Eve was on a Friday, you're talking about starting at eleven o 'clock on Friday morning going all the way through to Saturday night.
Sounds like some kind of hedonistic party going on there. I'm not quite sure. Maybe I've misread it, but it sounds like you're going to be partying for nearly 24 hours.
I'm just going to bring in Kerry -Ann on that.
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 1:04:36
Thank you, Chair. Yes, it is a, it does sound very extravagant with that wording.
This was an old permission on the old Magistrates licences.
So all old Magistrates licences have this as a non -standard timing on their licence
that basically says that New Year's Eve is deregulated and they can go from the end of permitted hours on New Year's Eve right the way through.
So as this is the new premises licence, obviously they're applying for that restriction
that would have been on their previous licence that they surrendered back in 2020.
So the terminology does sound quite extreme, but it has been around since the Magistrate's licence.
This is not something necessarily new that's...
OK, but does that mean we still have to have it in there or can we say, well, you know,
Cllr Paul Griffin - 1:05:34
New Year's Eve finishes, the New Year's party finishes at 3 a .m. on New Year's Day morning?
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 1:05:43
Yes, obviously, as per everything on the application, this is down for the subcommittee to discuss
and obviously if there's reasons why the subcommittee would choose to make any changes to that.
Cllr Paul Griffin - 1:06:04
It seems a bit archaic. Now that you've explained it, it makes more sense. But it seems like
I don't know, just doesn't sit right. Most places you go to a New Year's Eve party in a hotel, you're going to be on your way home by 2am, 3am, I would suggest. I don't know if my fellow committee members feel the same way.
Cllr Heather Wallace - 1:06:26
So have you got any more questions Paul? No. We can discuss that afterwards obviously, unless James and Caroline want to come back on that.
It would be highly unlikely
Applicant's Representative - 1:06:36
we would be doing parties
until 3am,
to tell you the truth.
Most parties would probably finish
from New Year's Eve
around 1am in the morning.
Obviously those guests who are staying in
house,
if they choose to continue drinking in
their rooms,
that is completely up to them.
If it was a ticketed event
and people were coming to celebrate,
yes, you would say
one o 'clock would be the normal time that you would finish that.
I, you know, I very rarely run any parties
past, you know, one o 'clock in the morning so it'd be very unusual.
I could tell obviously as a seasoned operator this is
Cllr Paul Griffin - 1:07:15
we're picking your brains this is business as usual for you
in your did you say 70 or 80 hotels. Yeah. But it's important locally for us to
understand these. Yeah, yeah, no no totally, totally. Thank you.
Right, thank you very much. Any more questions Paul, Matthew? No, right lovely.
Cllr Heather Wallace - 1:07:34
Caroline and James, do you have anything else that you wish to, any other points you wish to make?
Applicant's Representative - 1:07:43
We just want to be able to work alongside the community, you know, we want to be good
neighbours, you know, we want, you know, to, you know, obviously take on board, you know,
locals that want to work with us and, you know, and create an environment that everyone comes to
enjoy and not be a nuisance to the neighbours or the local community.
Once we're operational as well, which will be sort of in a
in a few weeks time, you know, please just pop in and see me.
Once the site is open I'll be available. We just want to reassure everybody I
think that's the main thing. Okay lovely, right we'll move on to the
Charles to present their case and we'll do this in the following order. James you
can present your case and I think you've got the opportunity now to present Mr.
Jackson's case as his appointed representative as he can join us today.
Interested Party - 1:08:47
So over to you. Thank you chair. The Parrish's case is as it has always been.
We prefer the site and have done throughout its planning and licencing history.
We prefer the site to make a profit without undue disturbance to its neighbours.
And so the restrictions that we've sought and the points that we have made have been
entirely around limiting that disturbance.
We ask as we did in our original representations,
that consideration is given to conditions
that ensure that those doors and windows are kept closed
and not just closed at 11 p .m. but closed
throughout the time the amplified music
or live music is permitted.
And we ask that the council and the licensee
pay particular attention to engaging and engaging with the with the community.
It's particularly easy to engage with me as parish chair as I literally live
within the boundary of your site. So you don't even have to leave your site to
come and visit me. And you're most welcome to come and drink my tea I have
space for that. So we only ask that the council and the licensee pay attention to those concerns
and continue to engage and put in conditions that are cognizant of these facts and indeed
that the licensee has themselves offered. I might add further to it, excuse me, further
to a somewhat joking comment that Councillor Wallace,
you made earlier, that was around the idea
of discounts for residents.
That was also something that was offered
by the owners during the planning meeting.
And in fact, I'm sure -
Honestly, I did not know that.
I didn't know that. No, well, I'm sure,
I'm sure you didn't, given your position here.
I think actually, Matthew Hyne, Councillor,
you may well have been at that meeting
and may remember it. It was a few years ago now. So that's really the presentation. Not
a great deal to it.
As is they could have been, Councillor Hine. He was elected last May, so at least he's
there in a different capacity.
My apologies for the confusion.
Obviously you look like somebody.
Sorry, Councillor. You must do. I do apologise. I don't wish to cast aspersions on the poor
child.
No, we don't. Let them take it.
So that is the representation from the parish.
Obviously you had a formal request that I represent.
It's Andrew Jackson.
You were asking about his first name earlier,
but the parish, you know,
puts their trust in me to represent the parish's view.
And it is noise.
It is late night traffic.
It is concern over the very narrow roads
that we have around here that are entirely unlit.
It is concern of antisocial behaviour
and the possibility that our neighbours children might be inadvertently subject
to things they shouldn't be subject to or served alcohol. Well if there were
served alcohol then obviously that contravenes all the laws about serving alcohol to minors or
minors drinking alcohol in the presence of a licensee. So anyway, okay thank you very much. So Charles do you have
anything you wish to add?
I see frozen.
I think you happy that you've said everything that
Charles might have wanted to
add because it looks like he's frozen.
I, I would not want to speak for Charles.
He's attending in his own right.
I know he had similar concerns.
He may have others as well and I would
always value Charles's opinion.
as a particularly experienced member of our community.
Okay, right. Unfortunately we can't pull in Charles to speak because it really does look like to me and if anyone disagrees but it really looks like he's frozen.
Quite dignified.
Very dignified for a freezing frame that's for sure.
He's lucky.
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 1:13:19
Okay, I'll bring in Carrie -Anne and if Charles does come back then we can pop over to see him.
Thank you, Chair.
I've got these two verbal presentations that were submitted by people who can't attend.
This is the verbal submission from Mr Bell. It says I confirm that I will not be attending
the hearing on the 29th of April due to work commitments. I would like my original representation
to stand. Having reviewed the agenda report and the amended application, I wanted to provide a
small number of additional points. Sorry to interrupt Kerry -Ann. Chair, I think Mr Pither
Laura Heller - 1:14:10
is waiting to get back onto the call. He must have dropped off. Hello, yes, I'm sorry. I dropped out.
So I missed a couple of minutes of my internet. One of the problems with living in these rural
communities. Thank you chair just making sure that Mr. Pithakin can hear
proceedings thank you. That's good thank you very much for doing that. Thank you sorry
Carrie -Anne. Okay so just to let Charles you're still frozen but as long as we can
Cllr Heather Wallace - 1:14:37
hear you we'll come back to you if you want to present any additional points
but Carrie -Anne's just reading out the two for the two parties that couldn't be
here at the moment and then we'll come back to you. Okay so Carrie -Anne you want to continue? Okay
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 1:14:54
having read the agenda report and the amended application I want to provide a small number
of additional points to the panel to consider in relation to the prevention of public nuisance.
I note the application has been amended during the consultation period however the amendment
relates only to indoor music hours midweek and does not address the core drivers of impact mainly
late night alcohol sales, event scale and associated outdoor activity and dispersal.
The overall scope therefore remains materially unchanged.
In that context I would kindly ask the panel to consider the following.
Whether the overall scope of the licence is proportionate to the setting.
The application combines extended hours, event use and unrestricted opening taken together.
this enables sustained late night activity rather than occasional use, which may not align with the
characteristics of a quiet rural location. The impact of activity beyond 2300 hours in a low
noise environment, as reflected in the report, nearby residential properties sit within a setting
where background noise levels are very low. In these conditions, noise from music, outdoor use
and general movement becomes more pronounced and travels further, particularly late at night.
The role of outdoor areas in overall noise impact, even when amplified music is controlled,
outdoor spaces can become the primary source of disturbance through conversation, congregation
and post -event dispersal. This is not easily mitigated once activity is underway.
The reliance on operational assumptions rather than enforceable controls.
Matters such as event frequency, customer behaviour and management approach are not
enforceable unless clearly defined within licence conditions.
If the panel is minded to grant the application, I would ask that particular weight is given
to ensuring that any licence granted includes appropriate and proportionate controls over
late night activity and outdoor use reflecting the rural character of the area. The report
identifies concerns relating to late night noise, dispersal and the rural character of
the area. In my view, these arise from the cumulative effect of the hours, scale and
scope of the application. I hope this additional context is helpful to the panel in considering
how the application aligns with the objective of prevention of public nuisance.
The second submission is from Mr Kingsbury. Dear subcommittee, please accept my apologies
that I am unable to attend the hearing on the 29th of April. I will be grateful if this
written representation could be read out on my behalf. I write further to my original
objection to the above application, I note that the applicant has amended the proposed
hours such that live music and recorded music will take place until midnight Sunday to Thursday
and 1am Friday to Saturday with alcohol sales continuing until 1am daily. While these amendments
are acknowledged, I remain concerned that the application risks undermining the licencing
objectives in particular the prevention of public nuisance.
Borstool is a small rural village with very low background noise at night.
In such an environment activity that might be acceptable in a town centre can become
intrusive when it occurs late at night.
This is particularly relevant here given the combination of alcohol sales, entertainment
and custom activity extending into the early hours.
The principal concern is the departure of patrons rather than music alone.
The proposed hours would result in customers leaving the premises between midnight and midnight 30 during the week and 1am and 1 .30 at weekends.
At these times, even relatively ordinary activities such as conversation, car doors, engines and taxis can be clearly audible and disruptive in a quiet, rural setting.
From the material available, it is not clear that sufficiently detailed and enforceable
measures are in place to manage late night dispersal, external areas and vehicle movements.
In the absence of such controls, there is a risk of ongoing disturbance to nearby residents.
Whilst I recognise that hospitality use is appropriate in principle, the extent of late
night activity proposed, particularly on a daily basis, appears disproportionate to the
rural character of Bawstall. If the subcommittee is minded to grant the application, I respectfully
ask that consideration is given to reducing hours every day of the week and imposing clear
and enforceable conditions relating to noise management and customer dispersal. For these
refused or modified to ensure that the licencing objectives are properly promoted. Thank you.
Cllr Heather Wallace - 1:20:11
Thank you very much for that. Okay, so we'll move on to the next section which is asking
if everyone, whether the licencing officer has any questions you'd like to put to the interested
parties. But back to Kerry -Ann, do you have any questions you'd like to put to the interested parties?
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 1:20:32
It wasn't strictly a question but it was just a point that Mr Stallard made about putting
restrictions on entertainment throughout the whole duration of the period. I just wanted
to confirm something that was in the report that live music and recording music is actually
deregulated between the hours of 8am and 11pm.
And as such, we obviously can't put conditions
relating to live music or recorded music
between the hours of 8am and 11pm.
It was just to confirm that point. Thank you.
No, that's great. Thank you very much.
Do the applicant's representatives wish to put
any points, sorry, questions to the interested parties?
So Caroline James, if you have anything,
questions you'd like to say to James and Charles?
Cllr Heather Wallace - 1:21:29
No, apart from the fact that as I reiterated earlier that we
Applicant's Representative - 1:21:33
you know we want to be good neighbours and you know support the community
you know our venue is such that we are in a rural area.
We don't see us being you know a rave place where people would be coming late
in the evenings and you know our entertainment you know
we we probably would be working within the
licencing rules of 11 o 'clock, 1 o 'clock on the mornings, but for a wedding that might have some
live music for their event. But apart from that, we're not going to be out there ticketing for
events for live music at this stage. We don't see that part of our business plan.
Cllr Heather Wallace - 1:22:19
Lastly then, do any members have any questions they'd like to put to the interested parties?
Cllr Matthew Hind - 1:22:28
Yeah, I'd like to ask James, I'm interested to know where the nearest place people from the village can go to to drink.
Is there anywhere in the area? I couldn't find one on the map. Where would you, where do people in the village go if they want to go for an evening drink?
Honestly, drinking is not something that happens a great deal in the village, but when they do,
Interested Party - 1:22:53
it is to the nearest bar, which is the pheasant or in Brill or the shandos, if it's still open.
It opens and closes regularly. When it's open, the shandos down at Oakley and then just beyond
and the pheasant there is the pointer.
Did people...
Sorry.
No, you go ahead, please.
I was going to say, the village aren't big drinkers.
The largest drinking event of the year is the Harvest Supper, which is held in Piddington
Hall.
All right.
OK.
And did people ever use the hotel in its previous incarnation, you know, as a place to go for
Cllr Matthew Hind - 1:23:38
drink in the evening or was it not really used by the members of the village?
Interested Party - 1:23:41
It wasn't really. This was the subject of much conversation between village representatives
and the previous owner, Alan Pither, and Kevin Byrne, I think was the name of the general
manager. And it wasn't, the locals weren't particularly welcomed there. And with respect
to the applicants, the food was not of particularly great quality at the time. I appreciate you've
done some refurbishment and probably hired a new chef. But so it wasn't that, it wasn't
that popular with the village. It didn't employ many of the villages, I think a couple of
children historically may have had some piecemeal work there, bar work, but there hasn't really been
a tradition of particular engagement between the venue and the villagers with a couple of notable
exceptions. So we all got invited to an evening when they first started looking into expanding
the site. They did a sort of a presentation evening there which was very pleasant and
Can I ask how long ago was that? Oh it was at least two years prior to COVID.
So all right so 2018 something like that yeah okay. It was some time ago we were served chilli,
it was very pleasant. But you know generally speaking no. I went over there quite a bit and
met with the previous owners and that was typically a breakfast meeting you know I'd
over and consume some of their excellent bacon sandwiches and we chit chatted out, you know,
their plans. Was this your role as parish of the camp?
No, this is, sorry, chair. No, this was in my role of being the nearest one and therefore the one
that the villagers used to complain at when things went wrong. You know these people, go and talk to
golf course. Obviously we can't judge the current by the past. No of course not. I'm
giving you pretty honest and open response to the question. It's good, we appreciate
that. Charles wanted to give you an answer as well. Thank you, yes. I feel that there's
potential for two really different outcomes here. I think that many of the villagers are
very open -minded to the project because they see that if it was all going well, it would
be an asset for us. It would be for various reasons. If it's a nice place to go and a
nice place to eat and have a drink and play a round of golf, well, that's great. But equally,
However you leave the site, you're going to drive very close to some houses on small roads
and the potential that has been flagged by many of our members is valid.
So I think what I've come away from this meeting with is a genuine sense of willingness from
Caroline and James to be able to keep open lines of communication. And I'm not sure how
the licencing authority in some ways stands to protect us in any other way than that relationship.
Because if it is going badly, then it'll be horrible. But if it's going well, it could be great.
Well obviously if there was, and I'm not saying that there will be or there could be, but
Cllr Heather Wallace - 1:27:44
like with anything, environmental health is the first port of call if there is excessive
noise continuously and then they'd ask you to keep a record and a diary of that excessive
noise, and then they would be able to guide you of what excessive noise is. So I'm not
saying Caroline and James that that's the case or would be the case, but Charles that's
just the avenue that you now are aware of, if ever.
Well, thank you.
It would be needed, but obviously hopefully.
And I'm an optimist and look forward
to a positive interaction.
Interested Party - 1:28:16
Hopefully with good communications,
everything will be smooth.
Cllr Heather Wallace - 1:28:25
Right, okay, so we are now moving to closing submissions.
Sorry, Ted.
Oh, sorry, Laura, I had to do your thing.
I'm completely sorry.
Laura Heller - 1:28:33
It's okay, I'm so sorry to interrupt.
No, you know you're out to. Mr Pither has just spoken but we were coming back round to him so
he could present his case so I just wanted to remind you just to double cheque that he has
presented his case and he didn't think that we were coming back round to him. Thank you.
I took it that was his case of being presenting. Thank you. That was the case.
I'm thinking to add to my written submission. Perfect, thank you. Thank you, Chair.
That was my assumption that that was his written submission but that's good thank you very much.
Cllr Heather Wallace - 1:29:07
Okay so we can give her closing submissions now so Carrie -Anne do you have any closing submissions?
Thank you chair I have nothing further to add. Thank you so the applicant's representatives
that's James and Caroline do you have anything you wish to add as a closing submission?
Applicant's Representative - 1:29:25
I just thank you for your time today and you know we do want to work with you and the community
and as James will be on site in the coming weeks you know five days a week you know he'll look
forward to seeing you when you're around. Okay thank you and then I'll just ask James and Charles
do you have anything you'd like to add for your closing submission? Nothing more from me thank
Interested Party - 1:29:53
Laura Heller - 1:29:57
Chair. Thank you lovely and Laura bring you in again. Thank you Chair it was just to ask the
applicant whether or not they have had the opportunity to consider those conditions and
whether or not they would like to offer those to the panel so you can consider those in deliberations.
Are you happy with all of those in the chat? Yes you are thank you I'm grateful.
Okay, so that concludes the evidence in this matter, but before I conclude this meeting,
Cllr Heather Wallace - 1:30:23
I'd like just to cheque with everyone that are you happy that you've, or do you consider
that you've had a fair hearing and you've said everything that you wish to have said today?
Please say yes or no or let me know that you are satisfied that you've had a fair hearing. Okay,
Good, good. Right, okay, so the subcommittee will now retire, we'll close this meeting and we'll
retire and discuss what's being presented and then we'll come to a decision which will be sent to the
applicant and all parties within the set time limits set out in the regulations together with
any right of appeal and so please could the parties and the members legal advice and democratic services
now please leave the virtual meeting and thank you for your time today.