Licensing (Premises) Sub-Committee - Monday 13 July 2026, 1:00pm

Licensing (Premises) Sub-Committee
Monday, 13th July 2026 at 1:00pm

Speaking:

Start of webcast

Share this agenda point

Harry Thomas - Democratic Services Officer

1 Confirmation of Chairman

Share this agenda point

Cllr Phil Gomm

2 Introductory remarks by the Chairman

Share this agenda point

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor
Cllr Phil Gomm
Applicant
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Sarah Winchester - Public Health
Interested Party
Cllr Phil Gomm

3 Apologies for absence

Share this agenda point

4 Declarations of interest

Share this agenda point

Cllr Michael West
Cllr Matthew Hind
Cllr Phil Gomm

5 Hearing Procedure Rules

Share this agenda point

2023 Virtual Procedure Rules

6 S&S Kitchen, 58 Kingsbury, Aylesbury

Share this agenda point

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
Cllr Phil Gomm
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
Cllr Phil Gomm
Cllr Matthew Hind
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
Cllr Phil Gomm
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
Cllr Phil Gomm
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
Cllr Phil Gomm
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
Cllr Phil Gomm
Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor
Cllr Phil Gomm
Applicant
Cllr Phil Gomm
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Applicant
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Applicant
Cllr Phil Gomm
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Applicant
Cllr Phil Gomm
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Applicant
Cllr Phil Gomm
Cllr Matthew Hind
Applicant
Cllr Matthew Hind
Applicant
Cllr Matthew Hind
Applicant
Cllr Matthew Hind
Applicant
Cllr Matthew Hind
Cllr Phil Gomm
Cllr Michael West
Applicant
Cllr Michael West
Applicant
Cllr Phil Gomm
Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor
Cllr Phil Gomm
Applicant
Cllr Phil Gomm
Applicant
Cllr Phil Gomm
Applicant
Cllr Phil Gomm
Applicant
Cllr Phil Gomm
Applicant
Cllr Phil Gomm
Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor
Applicant
Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor
Applicant
Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor
Cllr Phil Gomm
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Cllr Phil Gomm
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor
Cllr Phil Gomm
Applicant
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
Applicant
Cllr Phil Gomm
Applicant
Cllr Phil Gomm
Applicant
Cllr Phil Gomm
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Cllr Phil Gomm
Applicant
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Cllr Phil Gomm
Cllr Matthew Hind
Cllr Phil Gomm
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Cllr Michael West
Cllr Phil Gomm
Applicant
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Cllr Phil Gomm
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Applicant
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Interested Party
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Cllr Phil Gomm
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Cllr Phil Gomm
Sarah Winchester - Public Health
Cllr Phil Gomm
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Cllr Phil Gomm
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Sarah Winchester - Public Health
Cllr Phil Gomm
Applicant
Cllr Phil Gomm
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Cllr Phil Gomm
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
Cllr Phil Gomm
Cllr Michael West
Cllr Matthew Hind
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Cllr Matthew Hind
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Cllr Matthew Hind
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Cllr Phil Gomm
Interested Party
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Interested Party
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Applicant
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Applicant
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Applicant
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Cllr Phil Gomm
Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor
Cllr Phil Gomm
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Cllr Phil Gomm
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Cllr Phil Gomm
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Cllr Phil Gomm
Interested Party
Cllr Phil Gomm
Cllr Phil Gomm
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
Cllr Michael West
Cllr Phil Gomm
Cllr Matthew Hind
Interested Party
Cllr Matthew Hind
Interested Party
Cllr Phil Gomm
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Interested Party
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Interested Party
Cllr Phil Gomm
Interested Party
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Cllr Phil Gomm
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Cllr Phil Gomm
Interested Party
Cllr Phil Gomm
Interested Party
Cllr Phil Gomm
Interested Party
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
Cllr Phil Gomm
Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer
Applicant
Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health
Sarah Winchester - Public Health
Trevor Hooper - TVP
Interested Party
Cllr Phil Gomm
Webcast Finished

Select an agenda point

Scroll with video

Disclaimer: This transcript was automatically generated, so it may contain errors. Please view the webcast to confirm whether the content is accurate.

1 Confirmation of Chairman

Harry Thomas - Democratic Services Officer - 0:00:00

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. The first business on the agenda is just to confirm the

chair for today's hearing and I can confirm that Councillor Gomm has been selected to share this

hearing. So over to you Councillor Gomm. Thank you very much Harry. Just to let you know your

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:00:17

IT is playing up slightly. It was in and out a little bit there so if you want to go to dark

screen you can. I should mention your week IT coming in. Okay. Good afternoon and welcome

everybody to the Buckinghamshire Council Licencing Subcommittee hearing in relation to an application

2 Introductory remarks by the Chairman

to vary the premises licence and S &S Kitchen at 58 Kingsbury, Ellesbury. As per the Licencing Act

of 2003 and regulations made there under, licences subcommittees are not precluded from holding

remote hearings as they are unaffiliated by the requirements relating to the Local Government Act

of 1972 and therefore hearings may be conducted online and attended remotely by members and

officers. The public and the press can still see and hear the hearing through the live

webcast and members of the public have been allowed into the virtual hearing to speak

where they have registered to do so. I am the chairman for this hearing, Councillor

Philip Gomme and I look after the Quaint Award and now I would like to introduce other members

of the panel. I should go with the councillors first. So councillors, if you'd like to introduce

yourself that would be good. Which one would like to go first? There we go, Councillor

West. Microphone, Councillor West.

Well, I'm Councillor West and I'm ward councillor for Penn, Tylerscreen and Lyaport award.

Thank you very much Councillor Hind. Hi I'm Matthew Hind, Councillor for the Missendons.

Very good thank you. Councillor Hind has experience on the licencing group. This is

Councillor West's first time on licencing. He's a very experienced Councillor on different committees

including planning so just to let you know. So then we move down to our officers. Kerry and Ashton

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:02:21

if you'd like to introduce yourself please. Good afternoon, my name is Kerry -Ann Ashton,

I'm the licencing officer for Buckinghamshire Council.

And Kerry -Ann, for those that don't know, she will present the report and provide

advice on any matters relating to licencing policy, guidance and practise. Then as we move

down, Michael Feeney, if you'd like to introduce yourself please. Good morning, Michael Feeney and

Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor - 0:02:48

I'm the legal advisor for the committee today.

And again, Michael is here to advise the panel on licencing the local government law,

and this is to ensure that when the committee makes a decision, it's both within its powers

and legally sound. Then as I move on, Harry Thomas.

Hello everyone, hopefully you can still hear me okay, I'm with Democratic Services.

That's better Harry, better signal that we got there. Also in attendance to the following,

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:03:21

who will be involved in the hearing at various stages when I ask you to come in of the discussion

of the application. First we have Stevie Beckford is the applicant. If you'd like to introduce

Applicant - 0:03:30

yourself please. Hi I'm Stevie Beckford. I'm a designated premises supervisor of SNS Kitchen.

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 0:03:40

Thank you very much and then we move on we've got Charlie Robinson from the Environmental Health

team. Charlie please. Yes good afternoon. Yep good afternoon Charlie Robinson,

and environmental protection team.

And then moving on,

they've all got their different jobs to do for us today.

Sarah Winchester - Public Health - 0:03:53

Sarah Winchester from Public Health.

Good afternoon, my name's Sarah Winchester.

I'm a consultant in Public Health Medicine.

Okay, and as we keep moving down the lift,

gentlemen that we meet every now and again

is Trevor Hooper from Thames Valley Police.

Yes, good afternoon, my name is Trevor Hooper.

I'm the police licencing officer.

I cover Owsbury, Chiltern and South Buggs.

Thank you very much.

Interested Party - 0:04:18

And then an interesting party is Karen Grey, if you'd like to introduce yourself, please.

Hello. I'm guaranteed for the tenant who rents 58 Kings, but no 60 B Kingsby, which is adjacent to 58 Kingsby S &S kitchen.

Very good. So, Karen, just to clarify, because I can see on your screen you're using your Oxfordshire Health.

um uh ipad or computer whatever but you're representing yourself privately is that correct

definitely nothing to do with um my work didn't realise that account would come up just using the

team's facility sure yeah i'll just let you know just so we we all are quite clear where

yeah thank you okay i can confirm that uh if a relevant person is not present for their represent

present their representations which will have been read and will be considered when reaching a decision.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:05:16

I'd like to ask anybody apart from the panel members and officers that uses the chat function so everybody else stay off that, only officers can use that.

Then we move on to procedure items, agenda item three.

3 Apologies for absence

Harry Thomas, do we have any apologies of absence?

No apologies Chairman. Thank you. Now we move down to our offer by councillors. Turning

now to the declarations of interest under the council's code of conduct. Do any members

4 Declarations of interest

have any declarations of interest I'd like to bring to the attention of the subcommittee?

Cllr Michael West - 0:05:54

Councillor West. No interest to declare.

Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:05:58

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:06:00

Councillor Hines. No interest to declare. The only interest that I have is that I have

listened to a hearing previously with SNS by coming this meeting with an open and clear

5 Hearing Procedure Rules

mind as a separate application. So we now move on to agenda item five which we have

the virtual licencing subcommittee hearing procedure rules which are appended to the

Agenda pack for information. Can everybody, can all parties in attendance confirm that they have seen and understood the procedure to be followed at the hearing? Everyone?

Agree.

Yep.

Yeah.

Very good. Thank you for confirming. So everyone in attendance is happy with the procedure. Thank you.

6 S&S Kitchen, 58 Kingsbury, Aylesbury

Now, just to clarify one point listed in the agenda, the membership was myself, Councillor

Gryphon and Councillor Hinde, and Councillor West was the reserve. But to let you know

that Councillor Gryphon was unable to attend today's meeting, therefore, Councillor West

as stepped in as the reserve.

Everybody happy with that?

Thank you.

The purpose of the hearing should be born in mind

at all times to enable those with a right to appear

to advance their point of view and their concerns

to test the case of their opponents.

And also to assist the subcommittee to gather evidence

and understand the relevant issues

that we should be discussing.

Please be reminded that parties should only address

subcommittee in relation to matters previously raised or submitted. The subcommittee may depart

from this procedure if it considers it necessary and or equitable to do so. Do we have, oh sorry,

sorry I need to remind everybody if you've got your phone on to turn it off please accept my

on that one. Right, so do we have any preliminary issues?

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:08:27

Chair, I'll just confirm the email that was sent last week to all parties, which was the additional evidence to support the representation from Karen Grey.

That's the only addition to the report pack that was published online.

OK. Yeah. And that was the one that came, was it Friday, if I recall first of Friday?

It was last week at some point, yeah.

Yes.

Okay. And Stevie Beckford, did you receive that?

Yeah, I received that.

Thank you very much. Everybody else would have done as well. So the licence officers there advised us.

Now we move on to agenda. Thank you for reminding us of that one, Kerry. Right, so now we move on to agenda item six.

We now move to consider the officer report being presented this afternoon in respect of a variation to the premises licence located at S &S Kitchen, 58 Kingsbury, Ellesbury.

Please note that you should only address the subcommittee in relation to matters previously raised. Any lay evidence will only be considered with the consent of all parties present.

I now would like to invite the Licencing Services Officer, Kerry -Ann Ashton, to present the

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:09:37

report outlining the details of the application and representations received. Kerry -Ann, over

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:09:48

to you. Thank you, Chair. The application has been submitted by S &S Kitchen Bucks Limited

of 58 Kingsbury, Aylesbury, Bucks in respect of S &S Kitchen, 58 Kingsbury, Aylesbury, Bucks,

HB22JE. So the premises is situated within Kingsbury Square, which is within Aylesbury

town centre, and it's surrounded by a mix of retail, hospitality and residential properties.

The premises consists of a ground floor bar and restaurant area, and the premises has

no outside areas. There's a location map attached to the report marked as appendix one.

So the original premises licence was granted to Pizza Express Restaurants Limited in 2005

as a conversion application and it authorised the sale of alcohol,

performance of live music and late night refreshment. The licence was then transferred

from Pizza Express Restaurants Limited to Warrant Properties Limited on the 1st of October 2020.

The licence was then transferred from Warrant Properties Limited to S &S Kitchen Limited on

23 June 2021. The licence was subsequently then transferred from S &S Kitchen Limited

to S &S Kitchen Bucks Limited on 21 June 2024 and this is following the dissolution of the

previous premises licence holders company.

The current designated premises supervisor

for the premises is Stevie Nicole Beckford,

and she has been in place at the premises since June 2021.

As a copy of the current premises licence,

an associated premises plan attached to the report

marked as appendix two.

The current licence activities authorised

on the premises licence are performance of live music every day 7pm till 11, sale of alcohol

Monday to Saturday 10am till midnight, late night refreshment Monday to Saturday 11pm till midnight

30 and on a Sunday sale of alcohol is 12 to 11 .30 and late night refreshment is from 11pm till

midnight. The current opening hours of the premises are Monday to Saturday 10 a .m. till

midnight 30. Prior to this application, the applicants have submitted a number of temporary

event notices. In 2006, they have had the 1st of March, 8th of March, 3rd of May, 24th

25th May, 31st May, 21st June, 5th July and the 12th July.

And in 2005 they had temporary event notices for 27th April, 29th June, 13th July and the 2nd November.

2024 was when they first started having their temporary event notices

and they had 31st of March, 28th of April, 5th of May, 26th to the 27th of May, 9th of

June, 23rd of June, 30th of June, 6th to the 7th of July and the 27th to the 28th of July.

In 2024, the Council's Environmental Health Team received a number of complaints about

noise nuisance coming from events held at the premises and following these complaints,

A temporary event notice was submitted for an event scheduled to take place on the 25th

to the 26th of August, 2024.

As per their powers under the licencing at 2003, Environmental Health objected to the

10 and a licencing subcommittee hearing was held on 22nd of August.

Following that hearing, the subcommittee resolved to issue a counter notice to the 10, which

meant that the event could not go ahead and the counter notice was refused.

So this is an application to vary the current premises licence and a copy of the application

form is attached to the report bundle marked as appendix three. The variations sought as

part of the application are to extend the terminal hour for the sale of alcohol, late

night refreshment, live music and opening times on Saturdays, Sundays and bank holidays

until 4am and opening hours until 4am.

Add recorded music, which will include music played by a DJ.

Remove all the current conditions under Annex 2 of the current premises licence

and replace them with the conditions in the operating schedule on the application form.

The application states that it seeks to vary the current premises licence to facilitate a change in the style of operation

from a restaurant to a nightlife orientated venue. The application therefore seeks variations

which would alter the nature and operation of the premises that currently is authorised under the

Premises Licencing Act. The subcommittee's attention is drawn to section 36b of the

Licencing Act 2003 which provides that a premises licence may not be varied under section 35 so as

to vary substantially the premises to which it relates.

And in determining this application,

the subcommittee may wish to have regard to this provision

when considering the application

and the extent of the variation sought.

So the proposed activities and hours,

live music indoors, Sunday to Thursday, 11 till 11,

Friday to Saturday, 11 till 4 a .m.,

Recorded music Sunday to Thursday 11 till 11,

Friday to Saturday 11 till 4 a .m.

Cell of alcohol both on and off the premises.

Sunday to Thursday 11 till 11,

and Friday to Saturday 11 till 4 a .m.

And late night refreshment both indoors and outdoors,

Friday to Saturday 11 till 4 a .m.

And the hours open to the public

Sunday to Thursday 11 till 11 and Friday to Saturday 11 till 4am. Non -standard timings

requested are bank holidays till 4am for all licenceable activities and opening hours.

I would also draw members' attention to the provisions under the Deregulation Act

2015 which amends some part of the Licencing Act 2003 and relevant matters to this state

that amplified live and recorded music does not require

authorization when played on licenced premises that are

authorised and open for the sale of alcohol on the premises for

audiences up to 500 people, and that's between the hours of 8am

and 11pm.

This application was subject to the 28 day consultation period,

which ended on the 16th of June 2026. During the consultation

period we received objections from Thames Valley Police, Environmental Health and Public Health.

We also received no objection from Bucks Fire and the Planning Authority and no other responses from

any responsible authorities were received. Copies of the representations are contained within the

report. We also received three valid representations from other parties during the consultation period.

copies of the representations are attached to the report marked as Appendix 9.

The relevant representations received from interested parties relate primary

to the licencing objective, the prevention of public nuisance,

and the prevention of crime and disorder.

The representations state that the proposed variation may undermine

the licencing objectives.

prevention of public nuisance, prevention of crime and disorder and public safety.

The principal concern is that the premises are located adjacent to residential properties

and that previous events involving amplified music and DJs have caused significant noise

disturbance. The representation state that the building is not suitably soundproofed

and that any extension to licensable activities or hours could have a detrimental impact on

immunity of nearby residents. Additional concerns relate to the potential for increased late night

activity, antisocial behaviour and disturbances associated with customers arriving at, leaving or

congregating outside the premises. Environmental health have submitted an objection to the

application on the grounds of prevention of public nuisance. The representation states that the

in the proximity of residential properties.

Environmental health considers that the extended hours

would significantly increase the risk of noise disturbance

from amplified music, custom activity, smoking,

and dispersal during normal sleeping hours.

The representation also refers to a history

of noise complaints associated with events

held under temporary event notices,

which resulted in previous objections

from environmental health.

Although some improvements in management

and engagement with the licence holder

have been acknowledged, environmental health remain concerned that the premises has the

potential to cause nuisance without robust and enforceable controls.

The representation goes on to state that environmental health considers the measures proposed within

the operating schedule are insufficient. Concern are raised that there are no objective noise

limits, no acoustic assessment, no sound limiter, no detailed noise management plan and no evidence

of measures to address low frequency bass transmission from the building or sound insulation.

It is also considered that hourly boundary cheques alone would not adequately manage the

risk associated with late night amplified music. Thames Valley Police have submitted

a representation on the grounds of prevention of crime and disorder. Whilst acknowledging

that the application includes measures intended to promote the licencing objectives, the police

do not support the application as submitted and considered the proposed operating hours

to be excessive for a town centre premises. Thames Valley Police raise concerns that extending

the sale of alcohol and regulated entertainment beyond 2am would increase the risk of alcohol

related crime and disorder and anti -social behaviour at a time when police resources

are reduced. They state their policing model is based on demand from the night time economy,

decreasing significantly after 2am and that later trading hours may place

additional pressure on policing resources across both the town centre

and the wider district. The representation also refers to the

premises history of utilising temporary event notices and concerns regarding the

cumulative impact that late night events can have on policing. The police

highlight that smoking areas can become focal points for disorder and

disturbance, whether located at the front or the front of the premises, where patrons

are mixed with other members of the public or at the rear, where neighbouring residential

properties may be affected. Members are asked to note that Buckinghamshire Council does

not have a cumulative impact policy in place currently. However, this is to be balanced

against the statutory guidance, which states that the licencing authority should look to

police as the main source of advice on crime and disorder. The representation from public

health objects the application on the grounds that the premises is located in an area experiencing

high levels of alcohol related harm. The ward is within the top 20 % in Buckinghamshire for crime,

antisocial behaviour, violent crime, sexual offences and alcohol dependency treatment rates.

The area also experiences significant deprivation which public health considers

increases vulnerability to alcohol related harm. Public health is

particularly concerned that the variation would change the premises from

a restaurant to a more nightlife focus venue through the extended hours and DJ

live music. They considered this as an increase in alcohol availability and the

overall risk profile of the premises which may undermine licencing objectives.

The licencing subcommittee's attention is also drawn to the comments that were submitted

by the local planning authority who have confirmed that a full planning application would be

required for the hours of operation, but members are asked to note that planning and licencing

are two separate and distinct regimes. In addition to the mandatory conditions, the

subcommittees should consider those conditions offered in the operating schedule and decide

whether they are appropriate for the promotion of the licencing objectives and address any

valid representations made. The schedule of proposed conditions is detailed in the report

as paragraph 10. Regard must be had to the council's adopted licencing policy when determining

in this application of particular relevance,

but limited to is the following.

Licencing is concerned with the promotion

of the licencing objectives,

which are prevention of crime and disorder,

public safety, prevention of public nuisance,

and the protection of children from harm.

The council and its role as the licencing authority

must ensure that when it carries out licencing functions,

that it does so with a view

to promoting these licencing objectives.

The council's licencing policy emphasises that all licencing functions must be exercised

with a view to promoting these objectives. The policy seeks to strike a balance between

encouraging successful and well -managed licenced businesses and protecting the interests of

residents, businesses and visitors. The licencing authority expects applicants to demonstrate

high standards of management through their operating schedules and to identify practical

measures to address any risks associated with their proposed activities. Applicants are

encouraged to assess potential impacts in advance and engage with responsible authorities

before submitting applications. Where they fail to do so and relevant representations

are received, the licencing authority may consider imposing additional conditions. Particular

emphasis is placed on respecting residents' right to peace and quiet. The council notes

the district approach to operating hours may be justified in residential areas where there

is an increase in likelihood of nuisance. When considering variation applications, the

licencing authority's powers are limited to matters directly related to the variation

sought. Conditions cannot be imposed on unrelated aspects of the licence. The licencing policy

recognises that licencing is not the primary mechanism for controlling antisocial behaviour

away from licenced premises. Nevertheless, licenced premises can contribute to antisocial

behaviour and therefore part of the wider strategy for managing town centres and rural communities

and the evening economy. Under the prevention of crime and disorder, the policy states,

section 17 of the Crime and Disorder Act places a legal duty on the council to consider the

reduction of crime and disorder, including the reduction of antisocial behaviour in all

its activities, and the licencing authority will look to the police as the main source

of advice on crime and disorder matters. Applicants are expected to demonstrate in their operating

schedule how they intend to promote the crime prevention objective in relation to the licenceable

activities provided. Applicants should also consider local circumstances, for example,

such as the terminal hour of other licenced premises in close proximity,

local crime and antisocial behaviour hotspots.

In terms of cumulative impact,

this is about the concentration of licenced premises in a particular area

and the impact of this.

In some areas, licenced premises that sell alcohol and late -night food and drink

can contribute to a nuisance and disorder problems.

These problems can happen when a large number of drinkers gathering one area

when leaving a premises at closing time or queuing for food or public transport.

Sometimes a lot of licenced premises in an area can have a negative impact on the

licencing objectives such as public nuisance or crime or disorder. Where there

is evidence of this the council can introduce a cumulative impact policy

which means that the licence application would have a negative impact would

would probably be refused. These policies must be supported by evidence and assessments must be

published every three years. Before considering introducing a cumulative impact policy within

the Buckinghamshire council area, the licencing authority will take the following steps.

Identify there is a concern about crime and disorder or public safety or public nuisance

or protection of children from harm. Consider whether there is good evidence that crime and

disorder and nuisance are occurring or whether there are activities which pose a threat to

public safety or the protection of children from harm. If such problems are occurring,

identify whether these problems are being caused by customers of licenced premises or

that the risk of cumulative impact is imminent. Identify the boundaries of the area where

the problems are occurring. Consultation with those individual groups specified within section

of the act and subject to the outcome of the consultation,

including public's details of the cumulative impact policy

in the licencing policy statement.

The policy acknowledges the potential impact

that considerations of licenced premises

can have on licencing objectives,

where evidence demonstrates that the concentration

of licenced premises contributes to crime,

disorder, and public nuisance, public safety concerns,

or harm to children, the council can introduce a cumulative impact policy. The licencing

authority will treat the police as the main source of advice on conditions to be applied

in order to promote the crime prevention objective. Conditions imposed on licences will so far

as possible reflect the local crime prevention strategies and the local police and crime

plan published by the Police and Crime Commissioner for Thames Valley Police.

In considering licence applications where a relevant representation has been made

or if advice is sought from a potential applicant regarding the crime disorder objective,

the licencing authority will consider the following.

The presence of CCTV both inside and outside the premises,

CCTV may have to be provided in certain circumstances.

This is particularly appropriate where there is good reason to suppose that disorder may

place.

For example, a premises licence allow for consumption on the premises late at night

within a town centre area or where there is evidence of antisocial behaviour problems

in the vicinity.

The licencing authority strongly recommends the installation, maintenance and operation

of CCTV and that this should be carried out in consultation with Thames Valley Police.

It may be appropriate to ensure that the precise location of cameras is set out on plans to

ensure that certain areas are properly covered and there is no dispute over where the cameras

have been placed. Under the prevention of public nuisance, public nuisance relates to

the negative impacts of nuisance including noise, light, odour, dust and litter affecting

or likely to affect at least a few separate households locally. The licencing authority

is keen to protect the immunity of residents of businesses in the vicinity of licenced

premises. At the same time, the licencing authority is aware that licenced trade is

important to the local economy and promoting the council's culture and leisure aspirations.

Consequently, the licencing authority will try and work together with statutory agencies,

businesses, residents and other businesses to reach a compromise and its decision making.

In considering all licenced applications, the licencing authority will consider whether

the measures proposed to deal with the potential for public nuisance have in regard to all

circumstances of the application are adequate. In preparing their applications, applicants

are strongly encouraged to consider the measures listed below. Much weight will be placed on

recommendations made by environmental health in terms of preventing public

nuisance. Particular measures can include noise escape, revision for

smokers, customer arrivals and customer departures, the location of the premises,

management of outside areas and a premises complaints procedure. Under

public safety, applicants are expected to carry out appropriate risk assessments

and ensure compliance with health and safety and fire legislation.

The licencing authority recognises that many aspects of public safety are governed by separate

regulatory regimes and it does not seek to duplicate these controls but will examine

whether adequate measures are in place to promote public safety.

Relevant considerations can include capacity management, fire safety arrangements, emergency

procedures, prevention of accidents and injuries and measures to deal with

alcohol -related harm and public safety concerns under licencing legislation

focus on those using the premises rather than wider public health issues.

Regard must also be had to the national guidance issued by the Home Office under

section 182 of the Licencing Act. The legislation provides a clear focus on

the promotion of the licencing objectives which must be addressed when

licencing functions are undertaken. Each objective is of equal importance and

there are no other statutory licencing objectives so the promotion of the four

licencing objectives is of paramount consideration at all times. The guidance

also highlights wider aims of the Licencing Act including protecting

residents from crime, antisocial behaviour and nuisance, providing

effective enforcement powers to licencing authorities and the police,

supporting well -run licenced businesses,

allowing licencing decisions to reflect local circumstances,

and encouraging community involvement in the licencing process.

In relation to the prevention of public nuisance,

the statutory guidance states,

the 2003 Act enables licencing authorities

and responsible authorities through representations

to consider what constitutes public nuisance

and what is appropriate to prevent it

in terms of conditions attached to specific premises licences.

It is therefore important that considering the promotion

of this licencing objective, licencing authorities

and responsible authorities focus on the effect

of the licenseable activities at the specific premises

on persons living and working in the area around the premises,

which may be disproportionate and unreasonable.

These issues will mainly concern noise, nuisance, light pollution,

and noxious smells and litter.

Public nuisance is given a statutory meaning

in many pieces of legislation.

It is, however, not narrowly defined in the 2003 Act

and retains its broad common law meaning.

It may include inappropriate circumstances,

the reduction of the living, working immunity

and environment of persons living and working

in the area of the licenced premises.

conditions relating to noise nuisance will normally concern steps appropriate to control

the level of noise emanating from the premises. This might be achieved by simple measures

such as ensuring that doors and windows are kept closed after a particular time or that

persons are not permitted in outside areas of the premises after a certain time. More

sophisticated measures like the installation of acoustic curtains or rubber speaker mounts

to mitigate sound escape from the premises may be appropriate.

However, conditions in relation to live and recorded music

may not be enforceable in all circumstances

where the entertainment itself is not licenceable.

And any conditions appropriate

to promote the prevention of public nuisance

should be tailored to the type, nature and characteristics

of the specific premises and licenceable activities.

and licencing authority should avoid inappropriate or disproportionate measures that could deter

events that are valuable to the community. Noise limiters, for example, are expensive

to purchase and instal and are likely to be a considerable burden for smaller venues.

As with all conditions, those relating to noise nuisance may not be appropriate in circumstances

where provisions in other legislation adequately protect those living in the area of the premises.

But the approach of licencing authorities and responsible authorities should be one

of prevention and when their powers are engaged licencing authorities should be aware of the

fact that other legislation may not adequately cover concerns raised in relevant representations

and additional conditions may be appropriate.

Where applications have given rights to representations, any appropriate conditions should normally focus on the most sensitive periods,

which are particularly late at night and during the early hours of the morning when residents are likely to be sleeping.

This is why there is still need for the performance of live music and recorded music between 11 p .m. and 8 a .m. to be licensable.

And beyond the immediate area surrounding the premises, these are matters for personal

responsibility of individuals under the law. An individual who engages in antisocial behaviour

is accountable in their own right. However, it would be perfectly reasonable for a licencing

authority to impose conditions following relevant representations. That requires a licence holder

to place signs at the exits from a premises, encouraging patrons to be quiet until they leave,

or if they wish to do so, to do so at designated places outside of the premises,

and to respect the rights of people living nearby to a peaceful night.

In relation to the prevention of crime and disorder, the statutory guidance states,

the guidance confirms that licencing authorities should look primary to the police

for advice on crime and disorder matters,

and it identifies CCTV as an important crime prevention measure

and notes that conditions requiring CCTV may be appropriate where there is a risk of disorder

and social behaviour and crime. Conditions should focus on the prevention and deterrence

and be proportionate to the identified risks.

In relation to public safety, the statutory guidance states licence holders have a

responsibility to ensure the safety of those using their premises as part of their duties

under the 2003 Act. This concerns the safety of people using the relevant premises rather

than the public health which is addressed in other legislation. Physical safety includes

the prevention of accidents and injuries and other immediate harms that can result from

alcohol consumption such as unconsciousness or alcohol poisoning. The guidance states

that when completing operating schedules, applicants are expected to have regard

to the statement of licencing policy for their area. They must also be aware of the expectations

of the licencing authority and the responsible authorities as to the steps that are appropriate

for the promotion of the licencing objectives and to demonstrate their knowledge of the local area

when describing the steps they propose to take to promote the licencing objectives.

Applicants are expected to include positive proposals in their application on how they

will manage any potential risks. The panel is required to have regards to human rights.

The decision regarding this application will have human rights implications to both the

applicant and persons making relevant representations, which also need to be considered equally and

fairly so that decision is proportionate and the right balance is met. You should also

consider Article 8 and Article 1 of the first protocol, the right to respect for private

and family life and peaceful enjoyments of property and possessions, and this can also

include a licence. The subcommittee is obliged to determine the application in light of the

above and any other material considerations with a view to promoting the four licencing

objectives which are prevention of crime and disorder, public safety, prevention of public

nuisance and the protection of children from harm. Regard must also be had to the council's

licencing policy, home office guidance issued under section 182 of the licencing act,

any relevant representations received and the evidence presented today at the hearing.

Each application must be considered on its own merit and any conditions attached to the

premises must be tailored to the individual style and characteristics of the premises.

This is essential to avoid the imposition of disproportionate and overly burdensome

conditions on the premises. Standardised conditions should also be avoided and indeed may be unlawful

where they cannot be shown to promote the licencing objectives in any individual case.

The subcommittee must avoid duplication of other legal requirements and should only impose

conditions on a premises licence which are appropriate and proportionate for the promotion

of the licencing objectives and where additional or supplementary measures are required in

order to promote the licencing objectives. The following options are available to the

subcommittee today. To grant the variation application, subject to any conditions to

be attached to the premises licence which can alter or remove or add the conditions

already imposed on the licence and which are consistent with the operating schedule and

which are considered appropriate and proportionate for the promotion of the four licencing objectives

and are in response to any relevant representations received. They can reject the whole of the

variation application or they can grant the variation application subject to different

conditions for different parts of the premises or licenceable activities if this is considered

appropriate and proportionate to promote the four licencing objectives and in response

to the representations received. The subcommittee is asked to note that it may not reject the

whole or part of the application or modify or add or vary existing conditions merely

because it considers it desirable to do so. It must be appropriate and proportionate in

order to promote the four licencing objectives and be in response to the representations

received and four reasons must be given for the subcommittee's decision.

When determining an application to vary a premises licence the subcommittee must consider the likely

impact of the proposed variations. Any modification to the existing conditions

or imposed or the imposition of additional conditions must be directly linked to the

variation if granted on the promotion of the four licencing objectives.

That's the end of my report, Chair, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

Well, that was a long report there, Kerry and Ashton, thank you very much,

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:42:42

and very in -depth for all of us at the same time.

So we're going to carry on as we go through the agenda.

Does the app wish to put any questions to the licencing officer?

Stevie Beckford?

No, not currently, no.

Very kind, okay. Now I'm going to go through the interested parties. I've got a list here,

so if you just bear with me and I'll go one by one to see if you have any questions.

I should go around my screen and then I shall come to members last. So firstly,

I'd like to go to Charlie Robinson from the Environment team.

No questions, thank you, Chair. Very kind. Sarah Winchester.

No questions either, thank you. Trevor Hooper.

No questions, thank you chair. Thank you Karen Grey. Any questions for the licencing officer?

No questions. Thank you. Now I go around to our members. Any questions you'd like to go

forward to the licence officer? I'll start with Councillor Hynde. Yeah just one point

Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:43:54

Kerry Anne. You mentioned the planning application would be required for this move from a restaurant

to a night -time economy and whatever you describe the new application as. Would that be dependent on

you know which comes first in the chicken and the eggers is the need to get a licence key to getting

planning application agreed or would the planning application have to be independent of whether

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:44:22

the licencing was granted today? Yeah thank you Councillor Hine. They are two entirely separate

regime so they're not dependent on one or the other. So it is a chicken and egg situation as

you described, you know, for a premises. If they got the licence was approved they then would

obviously have to refer themselves to what the planning requirements would be. By the same token,

if they did the planning first they would then have to come to licencing to get the licence

agreed. Okay that's fine, thank you. Thank you Councillor Hinde. Councillor West?

No questions. Very good. Kerry and Ashton sadly I've got a few for you this time, I don't normally

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:45:07

come back but I'm just going to pick up on Councillor Hinde again regarding the planning.

Again I know the rules, they're two separate entities when it comes to that but it states

that it's quite funny that the local planning authority respond with no objection. Where

their objection basically is is what they send saying that it's in that the planning

doesn't allow that. So in fact really that question should have gone to the enforcement team

when it comes down to planning but that's something we pick up with there because it's now clear that

whether the application goes through or not, there's a breach of planning condition.

So that's that's something separate that I expect will get picked up.

But I just want to pick up on a couple of things.

Michael, I'll be with you in a second, if you don't mind.

You mentioned about the TENS licences, and I couldn't keep up with the list that you were

Now, how many have they had for 2025 and how many for 2026 so far?

Sorry.

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:46:29

Sorry, let me just go back to that page.

So in 2025 they had one, two, three, four.

And then 2026.

They've had eight.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:46:58

Okay and correct me if I'm wrong is is limited to how many tens you can have per year is that correct?

Yeah there are yeah premises are are limited to the amount of tens that they can have per year so

they can, they're also limited to how many days they can have as well. So a temporary event notice

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:47:36

can last up to seven days. So it is, it does get quite complicated. So they can have,

if you have a temporary event notice and it lasts maybe one day or two days or three days or four

days. So that comes out of your 21 day allocation. So premises can have 15 10s, but only up to

a total limit of 21 days. And that's in a calendar year.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:48:04

Thank you for explaining that. And then the last question I got, this was a little bit

I couldn't quite get it. Non -standard timings, bank holidays till 4am. When we talk about

bank holidays, so we know they're applying for the Friday and Saturday,

but if it's a bank holiday, say weekend, are they looking for Sundays and Mondays?

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:48:29

So everybody, when they apply for their licence hours, every applicant sets out what their

non -standard timings are. So there are different, depending on what they put on the application

form. So the interpretation of that would be they haven't asked for bank holiday weekends.

They've asked for bank holidays.

So a bank holiday would be bank holiday Monday.

Good Friday would be a bank holiday.

Obviously your Christmas bank holidays.

OK.

OK, we might have to put a condition just to tighten up as far as I'm concerned.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:49:10

Michael Feeney, sorry, you had your hand up, sir?

Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor - 0:49:15

No, that's fine, chair. I think we've moved on.

Sure?

Yep.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:49:19

Okay, thank you for that. Right, so if we carry on then next time, Michael, if you don't

let you speak before I continue because I can go on for some time. So I will.

No, no, that's completely fine. I realised I didn't need to say anything. So that's fine.

Thank you. Right. So as we continue, I'd like now like to invite the applicant, Stevie Beckford,

to present the case and if you'd like to now address the hearing please.

Applicant - 0:49:48

Good afternoon chair and members of the licencing committee. Firstly I'd like to say that I

fully understand the concerns that have been raised by the responsible authorities and

local residents. I appreciate that your role is to ensure that licencing objectives are

upheld and I want to assure you that this is my priority also. We have operated S &S

Kitchen for the past five years and throughout that time we've worked hard

to provide a safe and well managed venue. More recently we've held nine

temporary event notices since April which have helped us gain experience

operating later into the evening. During that time we continue to work with the

staff, walkie talkies, staff communication,

regular noise monitoring, and we also have CCTV in place.

Today's application is about giving us the opportunity

to operate under a permanent licence with clear conditions,

rather than relying on repeated temporary event notices.

We are committed to complying with those conditions

and continuing to work constructively

with the police, environmental health, and the council.

That's everything I have to say today.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:51:10

Thank you very much that was to the point now, very good. Thank you, so we'll carry

on. Does the licencing officer have any questions they'd like to put to the applicant?

No questions at this time, thank you chair.

Thank you and now we move around to the interested parties or agents. So again I'm going to work

around the screen. So first I'd like to go to Charlie Robinson please.

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 0:51:43

Thank you chairman. You have one question if I may. Stevie you mentioned in your introduction

there and also as part of your application that you've implemented some noise monitoring

and I know on your application one of your conditions states that you propose to carry out boundary cheques at the perimeter of the premises to ensure that music and patron noise are not at a level likely to cause a nuisance.

I'd just like to understand a little bit more about how you carry that out, how you determine what would be a level that would be potentially causing a problem.

Applicant - 0:52:18

So we do cheques every hour, we go around and make sure that the music isn't too loud from

the outside and we're making logs of those cheques as well.

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 0:52:31

Okay and do you, I know I'm not expecting equipment, but do you use any type of equipment

or is that a sort of a subjective monitoring situation when you go out? Do you just have

a an appointed person that carries out those cheques?

Applicant - 0:52:44

Yes, that's correct. We don't have any noise limits or anything like that in place at the moment.

Obviously, that is something that's not cheap to buy. So we would like to get that in the future, but at the moment we don't have that in place.

That's fine. Thank you very much. That's all I had. Thank you, Chairman.

Thank you, Charlie. Sarah Winchester?

No questions from me. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you very much. And now we move round to Trevor Hooper.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:53:08

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 0:53:11

Yes, good afternoon Stevie, just a couple of questions. What is your audience attraction going to be? i .e age groups?

Stevie, your microphone's not on.

Sorry, what was the, sorry I missed that, what was the question?

What is your audience attraction going to be? What age groups are you aiming to attract?

So we are 18 up to, I'd say 60.

OK.

That's fine.

We don't normally have our age group normally. We do have 18 year olds coming, so I can't say we don't have 18 year olds coming there.

But we do have an older crowd normally, but then again we say it's over 18.

OK, and then my last question is, have you had any problems with the temporary event notices?

No.

OK, thank you.

Applicant - 0:54:14

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:54:16

I'll be willing to start just taking notes.

OK, I'm just going to flip back to Charlie Robinson.

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 0:54:30

Yeah, forgive me Chairman, sorry, I did have an additional question that I missed off,

if that's okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, so my question, Stevie, was obviously the application is for opening every Friday

and Saturday as outlined on your application.

There was no indication as to whether that's going to be a weekly thing that you're proposing.

I was just hoping to see if, is that your intention that you would be open every Friday

Saturday or would it be less frequent as you sort of currently do via the temporary event notices?

Applicant - 0:55:01

The main reason is to not have to apply for the temporary event notices but we would like to go

for every Saturday, not necessarily every Friday but at least we have the licence in place if we

want to do Fridays as well. Sorry can I back in, we're getting some background noise from

somewhere and something I didn't like hearing but I've muted it Chairman, I've muted it.

Okay apologies can I ask if Stevie repeats her answer to that because I've missed a little bit.

Yeah of course, of course yeah so we would like to do every, so the main reason for putting

in for the licence is so that we do have the licence in place as and when we do want to do

events rather than having to apply for temporary event notices but we would like to do Saturdays

Fridays we're not so sure about, but at least if we do want to do Fridays, we have that licence in place to be able to do Fridays, so we wouldn't have to apply again for another licence.

Thank you.

Okay. Right. Karen Grey, any questions you'd like to ask?

No questions.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:56:12

Thank you very much. So now we move around to members. Councillor Hyde, would you like to go first?

Microphone, microphone, microphone. Sorry, sorry. Stevie, I'd like to find out more about the

Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:56:27

the structure of the, of the, of your operation, particularly with regard to the indoors,

in and outdoors, both between the street and the premises and the inside the premises and

the dance floor. How does that operate? I'm just imagining somebody leaving the premises

at say half three in the morning. Would that automatically open the noise coming from the

DJ?

Applicant - 0:57:09

Our door does open out onto the street but we do have a little, it's not a double door system, but there is a walkway, like not necessarily a walkway but like a little...

Passageway?

Yeah, passageway before the door opens. So the noise is sort of trapped in that passageway, I would like to say.

So as you walk in, we do have the dance floor sort of at the front of the restaurant and then the smoking area is out the front of the restaurant as well.

We do keep the smoking area out the front of the restaurant, so out the back, we could have smoking area out the back, but that would escalate noise to the residences out there, so we chose to keep it out the front.

There is also two other nightlife places each side of us.

You have Emperor's Lounge, which is literally just across the road from us, and you also have Feathers.

And they do pretty much the same thing as what we do as well.

Okay. The second question I've got one to ask is a little bit more about the business model of these Saturday night events.

Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:58:12

Have you got your resident DJ or do you hire a DJ in for these events?

Is it that sort of...

Applicant - 0:58:16

We do have a resident DJ that we're currently working with.

Last week, we done an event last week and we did use a different DJ for that event.

It was a different type of event, but we do have our resident DJ that we try to keep and use weekly.

Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:58:34

I mean, given that you're opening from a 3 .11 in the morning till 4 .00 the following day,

I'm guessing the resident DJ would only be involved for a part of that period.

What tends to be the normal way of operating?

Applicant - 0:58:47

That's normally 11 till 4 when we have the temporary event that it says.

Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:58:53

OK, so he or she would come on at 11 o 'clock in the evening and play a five hour set.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's correct.

Can I ask a little bit about the business model for how much do you charge?

Well, do you charge for going in? Do you ticket people?

Do people have to buy a ticket before the event to get in?

No. So it's free entry until 2 .30 and then after 2 .30 we charge on the door.

Applicant - 0:59:14

Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:59:16

Free entry till 2 .30 and then pay on the door.

Well, yeah.

Crikey.

Saj, you make your money from the bar?

Yeah.

Money from the bar, OK.

and that would yeah okay no that's fine that's what I wanted to ask. Thank you.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:59:45

Councillor Hind. Um Councillor West.

Cllr Michael West - 0:59:52

Thank you chair um yes I'd just like as a word of clarification on two statements you make um one

as you seek to vary the current premises licence to facilitate a change in start of the operation

from a restaurant to nightlife in orientated venue but then later on you actually go on to say

that the style and operation will not differ significantly during the extended hours.

Now I can't reconcile those two statements. I would have thought the style would differ

enormously in the extended hours and that the layout of inside the venue must change

significantly as well. Is that the case?

Applicant - 1:00:43

There isn't much change to be fair. The only thing that we do is we take, we move some of the tables

that's at the front of the restaurant and we take them out the back. But the layout is exactly the

Cllr Michael West - 1:00:58

And where does the DJ and where are the speakers? Where are they? What about speaker orientation?

Applicant - 1:01:05

So the speakers we try to keep to the left of the premises just because we obviously

do consider the neighbours that's next to us.

So they're not posting the front of the building?

The most recent event that we did have, we did have speakers at the front of the building

but no majority when we have our resident DJ they keep it to the left of the building.

Right okay thank you.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:01:29

Thank you chair. Thank you very much Councillor West. Okay I'll just think through my,

Michael have you got any questions you'd like to ask at this point before I go in?

Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor - 1:01:46

Chair I just have a few questions about conditions but I can do that after your questions.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:01:52

Okay, it's very kind of you. Okay, so I'd like to just flood in slightly. So picking

up, picking up from Councillor West, he mentioned about speakers, etc. You said that light positioning

is important because I'm sure we discussed that before when the other applications come

in about where they faced you. You have a glass frontage and I know that you're obliged

then. But, so, you know, some DJs come in and put the sound system to the left, but then at other times they do it to the front. Or could they be doing, do you have both? Could you answer that question, please?

Applicant - 1:02:35

No, so it is always normally to the left of the building, but most recently the last event that we did, he did set up with the speakers at the front, which we wouldn't have him doing that again.

I don't know. And then picking up on the smoking, like you say, you use the front area, which I know a few of those residences in that area do so.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:02:53

But you picked up about the other venues like across the way. Is that their smoking area as well? Out on the open area?

So, Feathers, yes, they have smoking area out the front.

They have a big smoking area that's out the front.

But Emperor's Lounge, no, theirs is out the back.

Stevie, which one is Feathers,

if you don't mind me asking, please?

Feathers is in Kingsbury Square.

Applicant - 1:03:22

Okay.

But you do also have Mirage,

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:03:25

which is just around the corner,

Applicant - 1:03:26

who also have their smoking area out the front.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:03:34

And then just pulling back to one of the councils went on about your business model and stuff like that, about what you charge, etc.

And you said it's free entry up till 230 and then you charge after 230 for entry there.

Is that because everyone else is coming from a venue that's now shutting?

So yeah, we do have some guests come from other venues that are closing.

Yeah.

Yeah, okay.

Applicant - 1:04:08

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:04:10

And then, two more questions. Why 4am?

Applicant - 1:04:19

Because we do get that extra crowd that comes from like I said 2 .30 so that's when we make our most money.

I'd say really you draw it so when those close that's when your crowd sort of...

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:04:32

That's when we're busiest. We do still have a crowd before that time but that's when we're most busiest.

Okay and then last question, the Thames Valley Police asked a question about have you had any

problems during your Thames licencing? You said no. I'm just confused of why we're here because

I think the Environment team have had complaints and so's TVP. Am I right or wrong?

I said, they're both showing, they're going, yeah, they have been.

So I'll pick it up with them when we question them on that one.

That's sort of the end of the questions that I got.

But thanks for enlightening us on there.

Any other questions for anyone with Stevie Beckford before we carry on?

Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor - 1:05:33

I've just got a few questions to ask just on conditions. And obviously the conditions,

these would only be imposed if the committee were minded to grant. And so I'm just asking

about them in case the committee's minded to grant. It doesn't mean that the committee

in any way has made up its mind already. Just the first question, Stevie, is on one of the

conditions refers to a capacity of 100 for the venue. I just wanted to make sure, is

that correct, the capacity would be 100?

No, the capacity is 200.

Okay, the 200...

Applicant - 1:06:15

And that was... yeah, which was agreed to by Environmental Health. It was 250 when we

first started but we agreed to this with environmental health.

Okay, well maybe we can pick that up.

Hold on Charlie. Yeah, Michael you carry on.

Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor - 1:06:30

Yeah, we can pick that up with environmental health. Okay, and the conditions in the report,

pages 31 to 34, so these were conditions that officers redrafted to ensure that they were

clear and enforceable. I just wanted to cheque, do you, if the application were granted, you

would agree to the imposition of those conditions?

Yes, of course.

Okay. And just to cheque as well, late night refreshment, the application you've asked

just for late night refreshment on Friday and Saturday, on the current licence, there's

night refreshment from Monday to Thursday as well until half past midnight. So I just

want to make sure, would you like late night refreshments as it currently is on the current

licence Monday to Thursday, or do you only want late night refreshment on Friday and

Saturday?

Applicant - 1:07:36

No, we would like it as it currently is, but we're happy with it also if it's only up until

but preferably as it is till 1230 would be great.

Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor - 1:07:48

Okay, so I think the fact that it wasn't included originally

was just a mistake on the application form or...

Okay, well...

Right, okay, I think those are all my questions, Chair.

Michael, thank you very much for that.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:08:08

Charlie, you put your hand up when Stevie Beckford made that clarification.

Would you answer that for us, please, at this point? It's easier.

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 1:08:20

Yeah, I just wanted to clarify because I'm not aware of Environmental Protection having any sort of involvement in an agreement in terms of a capacity when we were looking at the noise side of things.

I just wanted to clarify it may well have been colleagues dealing with health and safety

because obviously the local authority and environmental health are the health and safety

authority for restaurants or it may well have been a fire officer so I just wanted to clarify

to see if Stevie had any more information on that because it wasn't something that environmental

protection were involved in from a noise perspective so I just wanted to make that clear.

Thank you for doing that and yeah I'd like that clarified because I see it on the fire

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:08:57

and I always believed it was the authority that gave the capacity figure, but I could be wrong.

But Kerry -Ann Ashton has got her hand up.

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 1:09:07

Yeah, thank you, Chair. Yes, yeah, the capacity would likely be indicated on the premises fire risk assessment.

I did contact Stevie today to ask whether they have a copy of their current

fire risk assessment. Obviously the capacity like I said should be listed in there.

I also just wanted to come back on the confusion over the hours. Obviously the premises currently

has alcohol Monday to Saturday 10am to 11pm.

But the applicants actually asked on this variation for the

sale of alcohol to be Sunday to Thursday 11am to 11pm.

where they have extended their hours on a Friday and Saturday,

they have actually reduced their hours during the week. So I

think that's where the confusion over late night refreshment

comes from, because they wouldn't actually be, they

wouldn't actually need late night refreshment because

they're out, their hours are closing at 11 o 'clock Sunday to Thursday. I hope that clears that up.

Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor - 1:10:24

Yeah I think so, yes I think that's right that the, so and Stevie perhaps, yes I can see now,

so the proposal with the current application is for it to close at 11 pm but then to Sunday

to Thursday, but then close at 4am Friday and Saturday. Yeah.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:10:51

OK. Right. And then just to pick up on Kerry and Ashton,

with asking Stevie Beckford a question, was it today, about their far risk?

Stevie, was you able to obtain that at all?

Applicant - 1:11:04

Sorry, I must have. Was the email this morning, did you say, Kerry?

Yes, apologies. Yes, I did.

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 1:11:09

Applicant - 1:11:11

Yes, I can let me ask a question. I haven't actually received the email from someone.

Okay, you're breaking up a little bit Stevie, just to let you know.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:11:25

Oh sorry, yes I can obtain that definitely.

Applicant - 1:11:28

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:11:31

Is there any chance of obtaining it during this hearing from someone?

Applicant - 1:11:36

I don't, I'd have to contact the fire and electrical so I'm not currently at the premises

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:11:42

myself yeah. Yeah okay get that no problem but thanks for answering that honestly and openly.

Right so Stevie Beckford is there anything you'd like to add before we move on on the agenda?

No not at the moment. Thank you so I'd like to invite interested parties to present their case

in the following order and I'm going to roughly stick to what I've been doing actually.

Charlie Robinson if you'd like to go first please.

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 1:12:09

Yes, thank you, Chair. I'm aware you've all received the report pack, including my representation,

so I'll provide a brief summary of our position as it stands. So Environmental Health submitted

an objection to the variation on the grounds of the Prevention of Public Nuisance objective.

As we've heard, obviously the applicant is seeking to change the style and nature of

the premises from a restaurant to the nightlife venue, including DJ entertainment through

the extension of these hours.

And Environmental Health at this point

consider these hours to be unsuitable

for the premises given its close

proximity to residential premises nearby.

Members should be aware

that Environmental Health

have a history of involvement

with this premises.

As you've heard during 2024 and 2025,

we received a number of complaints

relating to noise from events

under the operation of temporary event notices.

And those complaints,

as you've heard, result

and Environmental Health objecting to, it was actually two temporary event notices,

one in August of 24 and one in September of 24, both of which were then counter -noticed

by the subcommittee.

Although suggested by Environmental Health previously as part of this application, the

applicant hasn't presented any form of either acoustic assessment, objective noise limits,

mitigation, no detailed noise management plan or anything else that we may well expect to

see for such a significant change in terms of a premises to demonstrate how nuisance

will be prevented during late night operation. The conditions that are proposed, mainly the

boundary cheques, are considered insufficient and even then I do have reservations on how

they would be practically implemented as part of the premises management.

Even with controls, if significant controls were included, we do have concerns about the suitability of the premises as a whole for the hours that have been proposed for these activities.

The premises, as we've heard, shares a party wall with residential units and has residential properties opposite and to the rear.

At this time, given my understanding of the case and my involvement previously, and how

the premises has operated as part of their temporary event notices, I can't see that

the premises would be able to operate this type of business that they're proposing whilst

upholding the prevention of public nuisance objective.

It is accepted that following some proactive engagement with environmental health, following

the licencing subcommittees in 2025, so there was a bit of a break. We had the licencing committees in

August and September. I believe there was then a break in terms of events whilst the premises

operators considered what to do. We then engaged back in April of 2025 where we went down to the

premises and we had a discussion about what controls could be in place to potentially trial

some events again. And that was a constructive piece of work. It resulted in a number of

changes being put in place. And then there have been a number of temporary event notices

since then, which we had not received complaints to at the time. Those events averaged around

just under one per month. I think there was a few months between May 25 and now where

there were no events, there was a couple of months where that didn't happen.

However, what I can what I must say is obviously I cannot say whether these events did or did not cause any disturbance in that period.

We just we did not receive complaints at that time.

However, to suggest granting permission for a late night opening every Friday and Saturday is a very different type of use to the situation that we've been experiencing at the premises up until now,

where we've been able to essentially review and be consulted on a limited number of extensions

as part of the temporary event notice regime.

I would also like to raise that since submitting our representation, Environmental Health have

received further complaints about two of the temporary notices held at the premises, namely

the 20th of June and the 5th of July.

And I believe those are the events that potentially Stevie has referred to where a different DJ

was involved and speakers were in a different position, which may well, although obviously

it's not been investigated, that may well give an indication as to why we've received

complaints about those events.

And whilst obviously those complaints will now be subject to our normal investigation

procedure, I think that reinforces environmental health concerns regarding the potential for

noise disturbance arising from the premises if a licence were granted for regular use.

Environmental health were also disappointed to have had no engagement from the applicant

ahead of submitting this application and the application process. Obviously, it's not a

mandatory process that they have to engage with us prior to, but given their understanding

of environmental health's concerns and our willingness to actively engage with them previously,

I feel that it was a missed opportunity for them to discuss potential issues with us before

we reach this stage. And essentially for those reasons we remain unsatisfied in the application

in its current form and I don't believe that it would promote the licencing objectives of the

prevention of public nuisance and as such we are maintain our objection stands as it is

and at this point it's probably a good opportunity for me to pause and take any questions chairman.

You're muted.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:17:54

That's unusual for me to be muted like that. Charlie, I'd rather you finish your presentation first.

No, no, I apologise, Chairman. That was the end of my presentation. It just coincided at the same time as the hand going up.

Yeah, I see Stevie has got her hand up, but we do have a process. I will stick to the process.

what I was going to do was allow all the interested parties to present their case, but I think

it might be easier just to go through one at a time and then we can narrow it down quite

quickly. So as it would stand, it would be the licencing officer first. Any questions

for Charlie? No questions, Chair, thank you.

Now I can go over to Stevie Beckford. Stevie, over to you.

Applicant - 1:18:40

Yeah, it's the first that I've heard about the complaint, so that's why I haven't reached

out to Environmental Health.

Would you like me to come back on that, Gem, and just for a brief clarification?

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 1:18:53

Yeah, please.

So obviously the complaint, we have got a bit of a, I'm happy to say, I'm happy to say

we've got a bit of a short backlog within the team.

So the complaints were in relation to recent events, so they haven't yet been,

you would not yet fully engaged in an investigation process. So that's why we haven't

reached out to the premises as of yet. But I just wanted to clarify my concern around not

receiving contact from the premises was just in general about the application. So I would have

hoped that we would have received some sort of engagement prior to the submission of the variation

given the history rather than specifically in relation to these most recent complaints.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:19:37

Okay. Okay. Right, so members, any questions for Charlie Robinson, please? Councillor Hynde?

The general area in Aylesbury around this and the other night, I mean, is complaints

Cllr Matthew Hind - 1:20:06

regular? Can I ask that question? I mean, is it quite common to get complaints about

noise?

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:20:20

No, that's not really relevant to the, I understand the question, I think for the applicant is, Charlie?

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 1:20:28

I can give a brief, yeah, I will be just sensitive.

Yeah, we obviously it's a complex environment. Let's put it in that way.

It's a vibrant environment of the town centre.

You've got a number of commercial operations operating in that area,

late night venues and mixed with close proximity of either

old historic housing or housing above commercial units and recent conversions.

So it is a complex environment for premises like this to operate.

I would I would provide a sort of a general statement that we have received

complaints about venues in the area but I would say that it's difficult for me to say that it's

a regular thing. Okay is that acceptable? Yeah no that's fine.

Um Councillor West?

Cllr Michael West - 1:21:19

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:21:24

Nothing from me Chad. Okay I'll let you two get there first. I'm just gonna round Rob in for

everyone in case you've got questions for Charlie. Uh Stephen, Becky you got any more questions

you'd like to ask Charlie? Stevie your microphone's off. Oh sorry, no more questions. Okay. But

Applicant - 1:21:50

just sorry I do actually have one question. Yeah. So prior before we had put in to vary

licence. Can you just confirm we only ever had two complaints?

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 1:22:03

Can I just clarify, do you mean complainants or individual complaints about events?

Complaints overall.

Complaints overall, it would be difficult for me to give you a number, it was not just

two. We've had multiple complainants about multiple events in the past, obviously that's

stretching over the period of when we first engaged with youth in 2024 when it was sort of

its height but we've had a number of complaints from multiple complainants.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:22:33

I'm, Stevie, let me just twist that a second for you because I think I know where you might have

been coming from. So you did mention Charlie that the last two 10s um you'd had complaints on those.

Correct. The 10s just before, say in 2026, have you had any complaints on those?

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 1:22:55

So we've received no other complaints in 2026 other than relating to the 20th of June slash 21st of June over that evening and the 5th of July.

So in terms of recent history, 2026, just those two events.

Applicant - 1:23:12

The reason why I ask that is because I believe, sorry, the reason why I ask that

is because I think that may be because the residents are aware that we've put

into parrilla licence so I feel like as they they feel as they complain it may

get us objected sort of thing. If I'm a chairman of what I would say is that

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 1:23:34

it's obviously difficult from an environment, I wouldn't be in a position to say so however I don't

I believe the committee received recordings that were submitted as part of the complaint

for the events that I'm referring to in the email on Friday. So we have received recordings

to support complaints. The motivation behind that I wouldn't be in a position to comment

on.

Okay. Sarah, have you got any questions you'd like to ask Charlie?

No questions from me. Thanks, Chair.

Karen Grey, have you got any questions you'd like to ask Charlie, please?

Interested Party - 1:24:13

It's not a question, but maybe just a comment, really. I think, you know, being involved in a joining property, 2024 was very difficult.

There were lots of temporary events and some of them go in across two nights.

I would say that save that for your deliberation. I'm going to hold you back on that one.

OK, I mean, that would have been more appropriate to go there. Charlie, I just have a couple of

questions for letting you off to move on. So you said about. You said you had complaints of the

last two 10s. The 10s before, I think maybe Kerry and Ash, what time were they till the

morning? Like there was subject that it could have been a different DJ and take offence

to that slightly because it's irrelevant. DJs in the building. So were they till four

o 'clock or?

Yep. So I can give clarity on that. So all of the events other than I believe the first

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 1:25:19

two after our engagement with the premises in April of 2025.

I believe we've done a couple of shorter ones in April 2025 after some controls were implemented.

So I think they were until potentially half past two or three o 'clock.

I'm sure Stevie or or potentially Carrie -Anne if she's got the records will be able to tell.

But in terms of recent events and sort of the more recent operations, they've all been until that four o 'clock time.

And the reason I mentioned about the different DJ was purely around the positioning of the speakers rather than the individual.

Yeah. Yeah. I will view on that one.

Because that was one of the changes that we discussed in April 25 was the positioning of the speakers.

Positioning. Exactly.

Which I hoped had then resolved or at least reduced the impact on neighbours.

And therefore, that's why I'm only surmising that potentially the mention of speakers now being in a different position to normal was what's resulted in the normal.

I get that because again, not trying to put words in your mouth.

This is me being a bit controversial now, because if you had if the DJs have been

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:26:29

operating since January and operating till four in the morning and you haven't

really had any complaints, it could be where position DJ is.

People just get used to it.

But if they're like you've had complaints in the last two.

My my question back to you and I'll be saying the same to Trevor Hooper is why

do you issue any 10s if you if you get in complaints but obviously not because it's more

since the last two have kicked in therefore we are where we are now uh listening to in this meeting.

I get it. I was trying to tally that up and to have that worked. Of course and if you don't mind

Chairman just so to give you a bit of an idea on our thinking behind that so obviously there were

the major issues following the the subcommittee um counter notices and the premises then took some

time to implement some changes or consider some changes.

In April 25, we said,

okay, some changes have been implemented.

Let's now allow some temporary event notices

to see how that affects things.

If we receive, I actually went out on

the first event after that to monitor myself in

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 1:27:31

a residential property and there were improvements noted.

So we then said, okay,

we'll now allow temporary event notices because at the end of the day,

the temporary event procedure is supposed to be

like touch, you know, it's temporary in nature. So therefore, without further substantiated

complaints from that point, we had no really real justification to object to those. Obviously,

now the situation's changed slightly where we've received those complaints and now an investigation

will follow irrelevant of this process in terms of the subcommittee for the variation.

Okay, thank you very much. Yeah, that's what I was just trying to get the two to link up. I think

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:28:16

the end of Charlie's little section. Sarah Winchester, would you like to now add to it

Sarah Winchester - Public Health - 1:28:21

under public health please? Yes of course, thank you chair, thank you very much. So by way of a

little bit of context, I'll keep this brief and assume you've read my representation,

alcohol harms are significant in Buckinghamshire, even before the pandemic they were the leading

risk factor or death in working age adults in the county and since the pandemic harms have been

rising markedly so deaths went up by 45 % in three years and hospital admissions to Buckinghamshire

NHS Trust went up by 65 % in five years so alcohol harms are quite a significant priority for us in

health. I recognise there is no public health licencing objective but what I will say is

that we have data intelligence and evidence that does relate to the four existing objectives.

So coming to this application specifically, the concerns of note for us were around the

increase in hours, the shift to DJ music and the removal of those restaurant specific conditions.

taken together, we think that those are likely to increase alcohol consumption

fairly significantly and with that increase the risk profile of how

that alcohol is consumed, a more binge sort of approach to drinking rather than

consuming alcohol with food for instance. Looking at the local area we think that

poses a challenge to exacerbate the risks around crime and disorder in

particular. We know that antisocial behaviour offences and violent offences,

including sexual offences, are already in the top sort of 20 % of Buckinghamshire

wards, so this is an area where we are already seeing significant harms. We also

think that this bears relation to the objective around public safety and the

protection of children from harm. We know that admissions to hospital or alcohol

related reasons again is in the top 20 percent of Buckinghamshire wards. We also know that alcohol

dependence that requires structured treatment through our community treatment provider One

Recovery Bucks again is in the top 20 percent of Buckinghamshire wards. We know that over a third

of people who are undergoing such treatment will either be parents of or live with children so that

provides a direct direct link to the protection of children from harm. So those are the reasons

why we're objecting to the sort of change of user and change of hours in this licence and

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:31:10

I'm happy to take any questions. Very good, thank you very much. Glad you put some little points

together across there. Carrie and Ashton have you got any questions you'd like to ask Sarah?

No chair, no questions, thank you.

Lovely, and I'm going to move round the room like I did it last time actually, I'll let the two councillors go first and then we'll move round the room.

Will you have us? Councillor Weston?

No questions, chair.

Thank you. Councillor Hind?

No questions, chair.

Okay.

I did have, but you answered. I was just trying to work out this business of, you know, the

wards and how it could affect children. And you just put that in because of the parents

going out, getting drunk and then coming home. And there's the long term problem that we

have. Right. OK. Josh, have you got any questions for Sarah?

No questions, thank you, Chair.

Trevor Hooper, any questions for Sarah?

Just one please, Chair, and I'm not sure whether I've missed it, Sarah. When you say a ward,

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 1:32:18

what area does that encompass, please?

So we're talking about Aylesbury North Ward in this case, so the political boundary of

Aylesbury North. I can't think of what the population is off the top of my head.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:32:40

Yeah, that works how your beats work, Trevor, with the local officers. They work on the wards. But so that's you're really covering the town centre and just slightly. No.

I go down into the industrial area and that down there. OK, it's a large area, Trevor,

you know, so you've got Elsbury East, Elsbury West and it works that way. But interesting

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 1:33:09

when I get to be it was just beat numbers. I didn't want to say that. So.

Sarah Winchester - Public Health - 1:33:16

OK, we've just the clarity, all of the data presented in our representation are based

on award level geography. It's a trade -off between getting it small enough to be particularly relevant

to the application but having enough people in it that you can take some statistical meaning

from the number of people who live there. Karen Grey, any questions you'd like to ask Sarah?

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:33:42

Okay, Michael Tweedling, any questions you'd like to put forward to the health team? No,

Thank you and then last Stevie Beckford do you want to come back on Sarah Winchester at all?

Applicant - 1:34:02

No that's okay the only thing that I would like to say is we haven't had any problems with any of

any problems at all with all the temporary event notices that we've been keeping so

having a permanent licence wouldn't be any different.

Okay, thank you.

Oh, my screen's gone now.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:34:22

Right, so as we continue, there we go, back to questions there.

So the next one will be Trevor Hooper from TVP, please.

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 1:34:29

Yes, good afternoon, Chair Committee.

I understand you've all had time to look at my report that I submitted on 1st of June.

It not only is an objection to the application, but it also outlines what happens away from the premises as well,

i .e. the hospitals, domestic violence, officers' safety, the cost of having to do the additional hours if this was granted.

So I'm quite happy to answer any questions that you want to put to me.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:35:07

Very kind. Okay, so let's move this a bit quicker. So we'll go round the table. Karen Ashton, any questions for TVP?

No, thank you, Chair.

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 1:35:20

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:35:22

Okay. Councillors, Councillor West?

Cllr Michael West - 1:35:26

No, Chair.

Thank you. Councillor Hind?

Cllr Matthew Hind - 1:35:32

I'm just interested to know Trevor, the numbers of police that would be working up to 230,

have you had a rough idea in the in the North Aylesbury area? Yes I can answer that for you

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 1:35:46

Councillor. At the moment we do a double shift, we do a late turn and a night turn, so during

the hours of nine o 'clock at night and three o 'clock in the morning there are actually two

shifts that would be two sergeants and I believe six officers. They would cover up until three

and then another team would go from 10 o 'clock until early hours in the morning, but those

officers also have to cover out as far as the estates as well so and or any other large incident

that happens to come into the town they'll get pulled away from that so they are not there

Cllr Matthew Hind - 1:36:39

permanently but they are assigned to the nighttime economy. Okay so the 22 till 6 the second shift

would that also be two sergeants and six officers or would it be less?

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 1:36:46

It would be the same but during the those the changeover times there are only two sergeants

and six officers work in the town centre itself but there will be other officers

work in the estates, Waddesdon, Wendover, those areas. Okay so after between say three and half

Cllr Matthew Hind - 1:37:09

four you could see what one sergeant and three officers in total something like that?

It would normally be two off two sergeants and and the other officers but

but not necessarily so because we are now a large local command unit, we cover

Marlowe, Wickham, Allisfield and all those places. Well yeah so it's a big old area so you get an

incident somewhere else in the in the county and then the numbers drop

dramatically in Elsbury okay yeah thanks that's fine. And the night -time economy could

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 1:37:40

take away a lot of officers as well for one incident. Sure sure indeed indeed yeah.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:37:52

Well, right, so we'll go round if I get this correct. Okay, Charlie Robertson, any questions

for TVP? No, thank you, Chair. Sarah Winchester, any for TVP? No, thank you, Chair. Karen Grey,

Interested Party - 1:38:09

any questions? Just one, I'm afraid. You're talking about the Friday and the Saturday

night -time economy. Is there a night -time economy for the Sunday bank holidays? No,

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 1:38:19

we just do it on the Friday and Saturday. That's when the two shifts overlap each

other and that's when we got the officers to be there for the nighttime

Interested Party - 1:38:31

economy. Okay so would there be no proofing based in the town for these

additional bank holidays? No, it would just be normal patrols on those days and

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 1:38:38

and if the hours were extended past the three o 'clock cutoff time for the

overlap officers then we would have to rethink our policing in a nighttime economy.

Okay thank you. Okay, Stevie Beckford.

Applicant - 1:38:57

Yes just, I don't think that the policing would it would make a difference because we've always

done the temporary event notices and no police have had to attend our premises ever so I don't

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 1:39:16

it would make any difference having a permanent licence? We have actually attended five incidents

during the temporary event notices time and they have been logged in on our databases.

So we even though you've not had many temporary event notices I think I think we've been attending

a total of five incidents connected to your premises either outside and in one case inside.

Applicant - 1:39:44

Okay, I think outside but we've never had no problems inside and most of the time the

trouble doesn't come from our premises it comes from other places nearby.

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 1:39:55

Yeah, I can go back to a temporary event notice that was held on 25th of February, 2024 and

we've got a complaint of indecent assault.

Applicant - 1:40:10

Yeah, sorry, sorry, yeah. I do remember that.

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 1:40:16

I mean we have had problems on the, out the front as well at closing time with where officers

act to stop and talk to people.

They, most of the time they do come from different premises though, it's not from our premises.

I can only go on what the officers tell me.

I can.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:40:37

OK, and then me last, I'm trying to, oh no, sorry, Michael Feeney, I do apologise.

Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor - 1:40:50

No, that's fine, Chad. Well, just one very quick question. So the incident you just referred to from February 2026, that's the one incident you have on record that was inside the premises?

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 1:40:57

that's February 2024, that's the incident inside the premises and they've got a list

of five others that have occurred on the pavement directly outside in the smoking area.

Yep, that's fine, just wanted to cheque.

Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor - 1:41:08

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:41:11

Okay and then last but not least, me. So I just want to pick up on a few things. Say

you have your normal patrols, timing is timing is an issue and like Stevie Beckford just

said you know it's the trouble outside is when they come from other venues well the venues trying

to attract people from other venues so but just a quick question Trevor, officer time so I just

worked something out and so if you've got say with Steamy's venue they're looking at 200 is

their capacity. I'm assuming that's including staff. So just taking into the area, I'm taking

it, I don't think I'm taking it to the extreme, so I'm not too sure how many you get in the

other clubs around there. But that, just so it's ten venues and 200 people, do you tell

me that eight officers look after 2 ,000 people if something happened?

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 1:42:16

They are dedicated to the town centre night time economy, yes, for those hours between

10 o 'clock at night and 3 o 'clock in the morning. They should be there.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:42:30

And then what happens after 3 o 'clock?

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 1:42:37

Those officers will then go off duty and it will be then down to the night turn officers

themselves to cover. Yeah. We have a dedicated team for the night time economy on a Friday,

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:42:49

Saturday night. Yeah, so that means then that goes back down to patrol. So that's patrols,

not just covering Ellesbury, but that's covering the whole of the rural area outside Ellesbury.

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 1:43:04

For those six officers and two sergeants, it should be the night time economy,

But all sorts of circumstances can overtake that.

One arrests of two people fighting in the town centre.

That's four officers from the Nighttime Economy gone.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:43:20

OK, it's just like you say, the Nighttime Economy team finish at three.

That's what that was a point.

Then that's got to be managed again afterwards.

OK, thank you very much for that.

Stevie Beckford, before I move on, any more questions to Trevor Hooper?

No, not currently.

Thank you. Right, so last person, Karen Grey, if you'd like to do your presentation, what you said earlier on as well, and if you'd like to elaborate, please do.

Interested Party - 1:43:52

Thank you, I think you've all seen sort of like my letter. I'd just like to, I guess,

picking up on the comment earlier, what I was going to say was 2024, we had a lot of

frequent events and some of those events going over two nights, which was, it's not tenable

really to not sleep for two days. Or you either sleep in the day, so that means you don't function.

Maybe you don't go shopping. Maybe you don't do the things that you would normally do on a weekend.

And then 2026 we just had, sorry 2025, we just had the four events. So

I guess we'd had a difficult time going through environmental health and we respect that SNS

want to run a business and need to make some money and everybody's just recovering from Covid and

things so you know we can adjust for a few nights of the year but then here we are in 2026 with the

frequency wrapped up right again and we've got the two event days you know back -to -back events

We've got the frequent every weekend 10s coming through.

And it's just not sustainable again.

So we have done the recordings and sent those in, which I can't understand how this noise travels through all these walls.

And I just also need to highlight there are residential flats above S &S Kitchen.

They've been vacant for two years, but I don't know how anybody would live above that when we struggle to live beside it.

And then. I think the video that is on S &S Kitchen themselves showing how their events run is just a clear evidence of what we need to do.

live next to. And I don't know if you've all seen that one.

Dispute over the positioning of speakers. I don't believe they've ever moved their speakers

to the other side. Every time I've gone past, they've always been positioned in the same

space which is next to the adjoining wall. Sometimes they used to block out the windows

so you couldn't see where the speakers would be anyway.

They don't do that anymore.

I think that's been stopped.

But yeah, the volume, the volume of people.

They're outside, they're blocking the entrance to the to the flats

they queue past the door.

They probably wee in the doorway, I don't know, but it's just.

The smoking area is outside the front door.

It just doesn't feel fair. That's all I have to say.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:47:08

OK, thank you very much. And, you know, to let you know, Carat, everyone received your letter and the videos and the recordings of the sound and listen to them somewhat clearer.

so we're going to go around the table to see who's who. Karen Ashton, any questions for Karen Grey?

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 1:47:30

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:47:30

No questions chair, thank you. Thank you, right I'll move around the table.

Councillors, I'll go you two first. Councillor West?

Cllr Michael West - 1:47:37

No questions chair. Thank you. Councillor Hind?

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:47:41

Cllr Matthew Hind - 1:47:44

Karen, in your letter you mentioned that you'll guarantee, is that the best way of describing

the person you kind of look after, say guarantee, has had to move out. Was that the most recent two

events that she's had to move out, or he, she has had to move out from, or was it some time ago?

Interested Party - 1:48:04

It is my adult child, they decide to stay away. When they see that SNS kitchen as an event,

they know they're not going to sleep, so they'll just go and stay at a friend's, but it's not,

you just can't stay away from your own house for every weekend.

Cllr Matthew Hind - 1:48:23

So they would get, they'd see the notice that there was a TENS being applied for and then say

okay well I'm going to move out for that particular night but a permanent would be that they wouldn't

be there they'd have to give every Saturday night and a lot of Fridays up as well to cope is

is what you're saying. If this licence is granted and there's an event every Saturday and some Fridays, they would have to find somewhere else to stay during those periods because of the noise.

Correct. We don't get notice from anybody about the 10s. We follow their Instagram account to have an awareness of when they will happen.

and then the, I think that the problem is it could be three nights in a row for those bank holiday

weekends as well, it's not just a Saturday, some Fridays when they want to, but also the

bank holiday Sunday. Do they hear any, do you hear any noise in the flat from other events,

out of the events in the place opposite the Emperor, is it opposite?

Interested Party - 1:49:44

No, no, I mean the Emperor is quite a distance away and so is Feathers, and when you walk past

Emperors you can't hear their music out on the street like you can with S &S Kitchen. I don't

walk past the Feathers area so I wouldn't know about that one to be honest.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:50:08

Okay, no, it's fine. Thank you. Very good. Thank you. Again, round the, forget this,

right round the table. Charlie Robinson, any questions you'd like to give to Karen?

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 1:50:20

No, it's not necessarily a question. Maybe, well, I suppose it is a question. I'll word it as a

Interested Party - 1:50:35

noise? It's less in the kitchen. At the moment it's less in the kitchen. But I think you

will previously it's shaken all the crockery and you know everything it's been so loud.

It depends on how high the the bass element of the DJ as to how much the rumble is. I

But yeah, it can be quite soggy.

It can be quite soggy.

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 1:51:07

So in terms of rooms that you're likely to be in

at that time, you know, throughout the evening.

So you'd be living room in the early evening

and then bedroom into the early hours.

You're impacted in both of those rooms at those times.

Is that correct?

Yes.

Yeah, thank you.

Interested Party - 1:51:21

Yeah, that's all I had, Chairman.

Thank you.

Sarah?

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:51:24

No questions from me.

Thanks, Chair.

Trevor Hooper?

No questions from me thank you chair. Michael Feeney. No questions chair. I'll let Stevie Beckford go last. Stevie.

No questions. Okay I've got a few. So firstly is, so we listened to your recordings. What sort of recording device was that? Because that was quite impressive.

the way that picks up.

Was that just on your phone?

Interested Party - 1:52:08

It's the noise app that the environmental health use

for recordings.

I can provide some context on that if you'd like, Chair,

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 1:52:17

just to explain what the noise app is for the committee.

So the noise app is an app that the council subscribes to

so that people that are being disturbed by noise

can download the app onto their smartphone. They then take the recording through the app

so that it is secured in an appropriate way and can be used for up to the standard of evidentiary

requirements. That then it doesn't have any sort of enhancing aspects on the software in the phone

or anything like that. So it is a pure recording from the microphone of a smartphone and it

provides us with a date and timestamp as well as a GPS stamp so that we can verify the date,

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:53:04

time it's recorded and the location. And does that record like the decibels what's going through?

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 1:53:08

No it doesn't unfortunately because phones would not be a reliable source for an accurate decibel.

You may well see that you know you're able to get a sound level metre type app on your phone.

It will give you a rough understanding of a decibel level,

but it's not a calibrated and accurate piece of equipment.

So because that wouldn't be

admissible in terms of the quality of that decibel reading,

the app doesn't have that function deliberately for that reason.

It's purely there to provide

a good demonstration and indication of the noise being experienced.

Thank you for clarifying.

Last two questions, Karen.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:53:46

You mentioned that next door, maybe Stevie might want to help with this one, is there's flats above the S &S kitchen.

I would assume that maybe S &S kitchen rent those or are they with a different agency, do you know?

Interested Party - 1:54:10

They're up for sale, they're with a different agency. And regarding the decibels, I did try a decibel recorder. It went up to 70, 71, but I didn't understand it myself, so I didn't submit it.

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:54:25

But like Charlie says, we wouldn't be able to, it gives a clue of what's going on. But OK. And then lastly, so I'm going to get a little bit personal now.

And if you don't have to answer, if you don't want to, you're the guarantor of your property that is rented from somebody?

Interested Party - 1:54:47

Yes, so it's it's a private rent, I'm guarantor for my adult child who's got newer diversity.

You don't have to go into that part.

I was going to say, sorry about that.

that is a private rent.

But within within their legal agreement

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:55:02

with you, there's normally a clause in there.

It's like we're involved with that.

It's just if it was a bigger agency,

there'd be a clause where they could make a complaint to S &S

kitchens as well.

If it's having an adverse effect on your

living at that property or whoever that that comes under their remit but have you got a contract like that at all or?

Interested Party - 1:55:32

I think the landlord has raised things to you.

Oh right, okay.

Yeah.

That's all I have.

I think there are comments in the pack from the landlord there.

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 1:55:48

Yeah, sorry Chair. Just on the page 106 of the report, the landlord also submitted a

representation. Is that Mr Hearn? Yes. Yes. Oh yes, sorry. Didn't read very hard, did

I? I'm sorry, it's a big pack. I should have picked up on that. Right, okay, thank you

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:56:13

much. Any more, Stevie, is there any questions you'd like to come back before we move on?

No, no questions. Okay, so as there's now very interesting parties present, well we're going to

now move on to closing submissions. Should you wish to make any and I will take it in the

following order. First will be from the licenced officer, then it'll be the applicant and then any

interested parties. So firstly Kerry and Ashton any closing submission? Thank you chair, I don't

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 1:56:47

have anything further to add, thank you. Then we continue then on to Stevie Beckford, any closing

Applicant - 1:56:53

submission from you? No, nothing else from me. Okay, thank you very much Steve. And then go

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 1:57:10

through my list. Charlie Robinson? No extras from me, thank you Chair. Lovely. Sarah Winchester?

Sarah Winchester - Public Health - 1:57:16

Nothing further from me, thank you Chair. Trevor Hooper? Nothing further from me Chair, thank you.

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 1:57:20

Interested Party - 1:57:23

No, nothing new.

Fine, thank you very much. That concludes the evidence in this matter and before I conclude

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:57:31

the hearing, is there any party present who doesn't consider that they've had a fair hearing?

Is everyone content with how the hearing's gone and you've had a fair opportunity to

your case forward? Everyone? Yeah okay no one's having a thank you very much. Good. Just before

I go on to the next bit I would like to personally say and I always say this for my colleague

councillors, thank you very much for coming to the hearing and for conducting the hearing in a most

civil professional way, I've got to say, sometimes they can get a little bit upsetting and stuff,

but I would personally say my colleagues are agreeing with me and we're saying thank you

for allowing this hearing to go smoothly as it can. So with that, the subcommittee will

now retire together with the legal advisor and democratic services officer for the matter

to be determined. The subcommittee will come to a decision which will be sent to the applicant

and all other parties who submitted relevant representations within the time limits set out

in regulations together with the details of any right of appeal. Please could parties other than

members, the legal advisor and democratic services officer now leave the virtual hearing and once

again thank you very much to everyone that attended the meeting otherwise. Thank you.

Cllr Phil Gomm

Conservative

View profile

Cllr Matthew Hind

Liberal Democrats

View profile

Cllr Michael West

Liberal Democrats

View profile

We welcome your comments in relation to the webcast.

Required field

Name

Comments

Need an accessible hCaptcha?
Check available options.
Sign up to hCaptcha or Log in to hCaptcha.

By clicking Send feedback, you agree that Buckinghamshire Council and Public-i can use the information above to review your feedback and contact you about it. See our Privacy Policy for more details.

Interactive webcast player

Licensing (Premises) Sub-CommitteeMonday, 13th July 2026 at 1:00pm

1 Confirmation of Chairman

Harry Thomas - Democratic Services Officer - 0:00:00

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:00:17

2 Introductory remarks by the Chairman

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:02:21

Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor - 0:02:48

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:03:21

Applicant - 0:03:30

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 0:03:40

Sarah Winchester - Public Health - 0:03:53

Interested Party - 0:04:18

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:05:16

3 Apologies for absence

4 Declarations of interest

Cllr Michael West - 0:05:54

Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:05:58

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:06:00

5 Hearing Procedure Rules

6 S&S Kitchen, 58 Kingsbury, Aylesbury

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:08:27

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:09:37

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:09:48

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:42:42

Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:43:54

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:44:22

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:45:07

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:46:29

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:46:58

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:47:36

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:48:04

Kerryann Ashton - Licensing Officer - 0:48:29

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:49:10

Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor - 0:49:15

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:49:19

Applicant - 0:49:48

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:51:10

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 0:51:43

Applicant - 0:52:18

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 0:52:31

Applicant - 0:52:44

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:53:08

Trevor Hooper - TVP - 0:53:11

Applicant - 0:54:14

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:54:16

Charlie Robinson - Environmental Health - 0:54:30

Applicant - 0:55:01

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:56:12

Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:56:27

Applicant - 0:57:09

Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:58:12

Applicant - 0:58:16

Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:58:34

Applicant - 0:58:47

Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:58:53

Applicant - 0:59:14

Cllr Matthew Hind - 0:59:16

Cllr Phil Gomm - 0:59:45

Cllr Michael West - 0:59:52

Applicant - 1:00:43

Cllr Michael West - 1:00:58

Applicant - 1:01:05

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:01:29

Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor - 1:01:46

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:01:52

Applicant - 1:02:35

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:02:53

Applicant - 1:03:22

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:03:25

Applicant - 1:03:26

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:03:34

Applicant - 1:04:08

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:04:10

Applicant - 1:04:19

Cllr Phil Gomm - 1:04:32

Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor - 1:05:33

Applicant - 1:06:15

Michael Feeney - Legal Advisor - 1:06:30

Applicant - 1:07:36

Licensing (Premises) Sub-Committee
Monday, 13th July 2026 at 1:00pm